Author Topic: #6 spark plug oiling up and transmission vacuum leak (modified subject)  (Read 8574 times)

sailorbob

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I live in California and need to rebuild my engine due to a lack of compression.  Does anyone have a recommendation as to the best place to buy a short or long block?  Any other recommendations for starting this process?π
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 07:13:52 by sailorbob »

jameshoward

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Re: Engine rebuild for 1966 230 SL
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2013, 06:42:46 »
Is there anything actually wrong with the engine? How did you identify the lack of compression and what are the readings?

I ask because my car has low compression but runs superbly well, for now. If you're going to do the rebuild because your car has a problem, fine. But if you're about to start the work because of low compression readings, you could wait and see what happens as you drive it.

In 7 years i've seen no difference in my car. Touch wood it still runs well.
James Howard
1966 LHD 230SL

sailorbob

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Re: Engine rebuild for 1966 230 SL
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2013, 07:12:46 »
one cylinder must have damaged rings as I need to clean oil from the spark plug after running the engine for 10 minutes and then I can drive the car without smoke pouring from the exhaust.  I've lived overseas for 20 years, so the car hasn't been used for a very long time.  This problem existed before I stored the car. 

w113dude

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Re: Engine rebuild for 1966 230 SL
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2013, 12:16:11 »
Have you checked the cylinder head? could be a leaky valve guide to that cylinder that causes it,

hauser

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Re: Engine rebuild for 1966 230 SL
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2013, 12:23:42 »

ja17

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Re: Engine rebuild for 1966 230 SL
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2013, 04:47:22 »
Head work will fix compression in a lot of instances.
A good valve  job may be worth trying first as long as your oil pressure is good.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

sailorbob

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Re: Engine rebuild for 1966 230 SL
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2013, 05:14:57 »
Thanks everyone for your ideas.  I'll check the valve guides first.  It's been a very long time since I repaired cars, but I'm really looking forward to this restoration.  I truly appreciate your collective wisdom. 

stickandrudderman

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Re: Engine rebuild for 1966 230 SL
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2013, 07:06:45 »
Be methodical.
A compression test, followed by a cylinder leak test, followed by a running vacuum test, followed by a smoke test will tell you an awful lot about your engine, more than you can tell once it's stripped down in some cases.
I have seen engines that pass three out of four of these tests that have still ended up needing a full re-build to restore correct performance.

Don't forget that poor vacuum will affect your shift quality (if you have an auto) and braking performance as well as power and economy.

I have also seen engines that have been re-built by well known outfits that are not done well. (Mechanically. Aesthetics is a detail you can live without if your budget is tight).

Paul & Dolly

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Re: Engine rebuild for 1966 230 SL
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2013, 07:20:56 »
 Two questions for you Sailorbob,

Is the car an Automatic ?

Which spark plug is oiling up ?

I seem to remember a post on here in 2012, regarding Auto transmission fluid being able to reach one of the cylinders, via a vacuum malfunction in the Auto gearbox control system ? - Could that be a cause ? Any one else remember that ?

Paul
Paul (located in Cardiff - Wales - UK)
1967 Early 250 SL (Auto) White
Mitsubishi i Car
Toyota RAV 4  Hybrid AWD
1936 Alvis Firebird (Gone............)

sailorbob

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Re: Engine rebuild for 1966 230 SL
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2013, 06:24:48 »
Paul - it is indeed an automatic (though purchased in Germany) and the cylinder that is oiling up is the one closest to the transmission.  How would I test if this is indeed the problem?  I'll methodically go through the steps suggested for the vacuum and compression investigation.  Thanks, Bob

Paul & Dolly

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Re: Engine rebuild for 1966 230 SL
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2013, 07:09:06 »
Bob,

Ah, well your problem may not be the engine then, if my memory recalls correctly.

There were postings on here last year regarding this and a malfunction of a component on the vacuum system on the auto transmission.

I believe that stickandrudderman and one of the "James" had some information about this - Hopefully they will pick this up and respond
here.

You could also maybe change the heading of your topic to " One Spark Plug - Oiling up - Help Please"
 or something similar to jog the memory of those concerned.

If not, then search around last summer time for engine, plugs oiling up, poor running type topics, and hopefully you can find it.

If you have no luck I will have a bit of time over the weekend to search.

Good luck
Paul
Paul (located in Cardiff - Wales - UK)
1967 Early 250 SL (Auto) White
Mitsubishi i Car
Toyota RAV 4  Hybrid AWD
1936 Alvis Firebird (Gone............)

sailorbob

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Re: Engine rebuild for 1966 230 SL
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2013, 07:12:50 »
Thanks Paul,
I did indeed find the posts related to James battle with his #6 plug oiling from last summer and the transmission vacuum diaphragm rupture was allowing transmission fluid into the #6 cylinder.  I'll check this as soon as I can, but I'm still living in Singapore and the car is in California...  Thanks again for your help.  Bob

Paul & Dolly

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Hi Bob,
No problem
Ah Singapore- I remember it with affection from my time with Mobil Shipping Co , 30 years ago.

Paul
Paul (located in Cardiff - Wales - UK)
1967 Early 250 SL (Auto) White
Mitsubishi i Car
Toyota RAV 4  Hybrid AWD
1936 Alvis Firebird (Gone............)

ja17

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Hello,

Yes, quite a rare failure years ago, but becoming much more common in recent years as these cars reach the age of 50.  i just replaced another failed one a few days ago.  The diaphragms are not expensive, even from the dealer. They are a bit hard to find at the moment, since demand is up.  I suspect stocks are running low. At some point more may have to be manufactured and the price will triple!

When the failure occurs, a rupture in the rubber diapnragm allows transmission fluid to be sucked into the intake of the engine via the transmission metal vacuume line. Smoke can be seen from the exhaust, shifting problems can occur from the leaky rubber diaphragm. The number six spark plug may become fouled and the transmission fluid level will decline. In some cases the translucent plastic brake vacuume booster line may begin to turn red from transmission fluid migrating to the engine intake.  

The problem is usually mis-diagnosed as something else much more costly.

The rubber diaphragm can be replaced without removing the transmission or the transmission mounting plate.  In this instance the exhaust system is being replaced, and  off the car,  making access to the transmission diaphragm even easier. However exhaust removal is not necessarry.

The metal vacuume line is disconnected at the modulator and the three 8mm bolts are removed holding the modulator cover in place. The modulator cover, spring and diaphtagm are then easily removed. A rupture in the rubber membrane is apparent after holding the diaphragm up in front of a light. A new diaphragm is installed and the cover re-installed. In this case the factory lead seal and wire are still intact, showing that the modulator adjustment has not been tampered with since leaving the factory.

Be sure to check the transmission fluid level before the first test drive. Also, the un-burnt transmission fluid, which has collected in the exhaust system may take a little driving to burn off.

This is a nice preventive maintenance procedure to do, especially  if your transmission is out. There is also a paper gasket and rubber o-ring behind the modulator unit that is nice to replace if the transmission is out. These items do not fail but may prevent a leak at some point. If you get into this "advanced procedure" pay close attention to the orientation of the cylindrical slide valve/ copntrol rod unit, during re-assembly. Just replacing the rubber diaphragm can be easily done in an hour or less. going further and replacing the o-ring and gasket will take more time and ability.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2013, 12:30:52 by ja17 »
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

Eminent

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There are two different transmissions used, right?
Is this diaphragm for both the same?
Thanks.