Replacing Exhaust System on 1969 280SL

[Lou F]

My 280SL has a hole in the center muffler a crack in the pipes leading up to the center muffler and rusted out baffles in the rear muffler.  I believe I have an original exhaust system.  I took the car to the MB dealer and a few muffler shops and they all say I need a new exhaust system from the front pipes to the tailpipe extensions.  The MB dealer was the only one to quote me a price.  The other shops think I should buy the parts myself and they can do the installation.  The MB dealer wanted about $2000.00 USD and was going to have a muffler shop weld the new system together.  I would like to order the parts myself and have a local muffler shop do the installation.
So my next step is to get a bill of materials for the job.  I have searched for 280SL parts in the USA and found Bud’s http://www.budsbenz.com/catalog/200/, Miller’s http://www.millermbz.com/ and k & K manufacturing http://www.kkmfg.com/index.php as potential suppliers. I have comb through this fantastic site to get as much information, diagrams and photos as possible.  Thank for all you hard work.
This is what I have so far:
Item   Description   MB P/N   Qty.   K and K P/N   Bud's P/N   Miller's P/N
1   Seal ring   007603-042301   2   007603-042301   G231-009   49-2009
2   Exhaust Pipe Mounting Bolt   ?   3    N/A   X   32-0004
3   Exhaust Pipe Mounting Nut   ?   3   N/A   X   32-0005
4   Exhaust Pipe, Front   113-490-09-20   1   113-490-09-20   G231-001B   49-2001
5   Center Muffler   113-490-00-22   1   113-490-00-22   G231-002A   49-2002
6   Connection Pipe   113-492-03-04   2   113-492-03-04   G231-003A   49-2003
7   Rear Muffler   113-491-13-01   1   113-491-13-01   G231-004B   49-2004
8   Asbestos insulation   ?   3   N/A   G231-010   X
9   Bracket, Front lower   ?   1   000-492-03-43   G231-012   X
10   Bracket, Front upper   113-490-00-43   1   113-490-00-43   G231-015   X
11   Exhaust rubber donut   113-492-00-82   2   113-492-00-82   G231-018   49-2018
12   Bracket, Rear lower   ?   2   000-492-03-43   G231-020   49-2020
13   Bracket, Rear upper   ?   2   000-492-02-43   G231-022   49-2022
14   Exhaust rubber donut   107-492-00-82   4   107-492-00-82   G231-025   49-2025
15   Chrome exhaust tip   113-492-02-14   2   113-492-02-14   G231-030   49-2030
16   Buffer, Rear Muffler   ?   1   116-987-01-40   X   49-2026

So here are my questions:
The Brackets in items 9, 10, 12 and 13 do these come with bolts to hold the brackets together or will I need to supply them?
The Asbestos insulation Item 8, Bud’s catalog states I will require 4 but I only see 3 being used (one for each hanger).  How many do I need?  Will the muffler shop handle Asbestos material?
The Bumper, rear Muffler item 16 I think I only need 1.  How many do I need?

[Cees Klumper]

You can consider installing a system with clamps rather than welded. That's what I did a couple of years ago, when I got a new stailness system at Van Dijk's here in Holland. Cost me 675 euros in 2006, including all the bits I needed, and it was relatively easy to install (I don't have a lift, so this was on jackstands). System still there, in great shape, no leaks whatsoever. The advantage to clamped vs welded is you can align it just right and if something would need to be replaced it's quite easy to do.

[stickandrudderman]

You can even modify the original steel system to be a clamp system if you don't want the rasp of stainless.

[Cees Klumper]

You can even modify the original steel system to be a clamp system if you don't want the rasp of stainless.

Actually my stainless sounds very much like the steel ones, no rasp or other light metal sounds at all. But many have complained about that with stainless systems, especiallly in the US as I recall (timevalve?).

[Bonnyboy]

I just redid my system replacing a nasty cheap single exhaust with way too small resonator by clamping a weld together system onto the front header pipes about 4" infront of the front hanger. 

Don't assume the brackets come with bolts - they may or may not but you will need bolts to hold it all together. 

I only had 3 hangers and 1 bumper at the rear.  My asbestos pads were missing so I haven't put those in yet but I only have 3 places to put them on my 69 280sl.

 I was able to reuse my 2 hangers and bolts/nuts and only needed a couple rubber washers and the hanger that was missing.

The rubber donuts that I had were at least 30 yrs old and covered in undercoating and were still in good condition.  If purchasing new you will need 2 donuts per hanger. 

I had challenges with the two pipes connecting the muffler and the resonator so I took 1/4" off of each pipe at alternating ends.  With the 1/4" off alternating ends the bends fit and the pipes fit all the way into the muffler and resonator.   I then fit the system with zap straps and a long piece of conduit to keep the system straight and checked clearance as I put load on the rear wheels so the axle wouldn't touch when I put the car on the hoist and drop the rear.   Once it was all set and the pipes were loose in the fittings I tack welded it together, dropped it out and properly welded the whole system together -  I fit back perfectly with no straining on any of the fittings / pipes.

The car has travelled 100 kilometres since replacement and now the car is hard to start - time for a linkage tour I think.

Good luck.

[Lou F]

Thanks everyone for the answers and the advice.
I am going to have a muffler shop do all the work because I do not have the equipment or the know-how to do a class job.
Today I will talk to the shop manager about ancillary parts like nuts and bolts that will be needed to complete the work.
I am impressed with the look and longevity of a stainless steel exhaust system but I wish to have the car restored to a near original look in about 5 to 10 years.  So I do not wont to spend extra money now for SS just to have it thrown away in a few years.
I am avoiding reproduction parts like ANSA because I seen a few posts say the parts just don't fit together without customization.
I need to talk to the supply stores to finalize the BOM and I hope to put my order in next week.
My big worry is if we find out a new part is missing or damaged after the original system was removed from the car.  And I can't drive the car home until the problem is corrected.

[66andBlue]

Lou,
make sure to check out the muffler shop and ask them to tell you precisely how they will do the job before you hand them the OEM parts.
They need to hang up the the complete system first, align it and check all clearances. Once that is done the parts are then spot welded together, the complete system is removed in one piece, and the welding is completed. A good shop usually also primes and paints the welded areas before final installation.
Take a look at the photos here to know which areas and parts are critical:
http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=14248.
You may have to wait a few months until the OEM chrome exhaust tips are available again.

[garymand]

20 years ago Midas Mufflers had a lifetime warrenty.  The system looks stock, the cans are from Germany.  to my amazement they are still working.  They appear to be aluminized on the inside preventing rust thru.  I thought I'd have 3 or 4 free mufflers by now.  Its no fun replacing the old stock steel parts every 30 - 40K miles.  I've had the stainless on a sedan, noticed no real difference from timevalve. 

The big problem for me is the craftsmanship of the welder.  If they don't give a crap about how their work looks or exactly where the mufflers should be and the angles of the pipes -once they weld it all up its too late to point out that the rear muffler is resting on the bottom edge of the fender and the center muffler is hanging too low.  If they didn't do it right the first time, they won't do a pretty job doubling their time onm rewelding.

[Lou F]

Hello again everyone,
I have an update on the exhaust replacement project on the ’69 280 SL.
I ordered all the part for a new original system and everything has arrived at the muffler shop except the chrome exhaust tips.  These tips are out of stock in the USA and had to be imported from Germany.  I should have the tips by next week.   So I am ready to get the car over the shop and let the fun begin.

Last week I grabbed my camera and got under the car to that some pictures of the existing exhaust system.  Looks like everything is original up to the center muffler and the rear muffler is an ANSA replacement.  I even took a video of the car so I have a record of what it sounded like with the faulty muffler.  I will try to post it if I can compress the file to small enough size.

I have to admit I am nervous about the whole replacement.  I want to stay with the car while the work is being done so I can see how it is going.  But I should trust the shop to do a good job and leave the car there overnight and pick it up the next day.  Plus I will not miss a day at work. 
Well wish me luck.

[ja17]

Hello Lou,

Looks like you may be missing the asbestos heat shields at each hangar assembly?  Your rubber o-rings will last much longer with them in place.

[garymand]

he front muffler isn't OEM and the welder cut the pipes off at the muffler and welded right at the muffler.  The pipes at the front of the muffler are maybe 18 inches long and there is a ground effects or ground shield missing on the leading edge of the muffler.  It is a sheetmetal skid plate welded to the front lip and goes forward about 8 inches and then welded to the pipes.  Its not escential, but is a nice touch to reduce drag at high speeds.  Your new muffler should have it.  And yes get the hanger shields to protect the donuts.

[wwheeler]

My guess is the muffler shield is more for protection that areodynamics. Debris on the highway could catch the front of the low hanging muffler and do some serious damage. The shield might deflect it. That is why I welded one on my stainless exhaust that didn't come with it. Not critical but worth having. Easy to fabricate.

[Lou F]

Hello Pagoda Lovers,
I am way overdue on updating everyone on the new exhaust system.  It took awhile but I got all original MB exhaust system parts from Bud’s Benz.  The only thing on back order was the chrome exhaust tips.  Bud’s provided a hanger kit that packaged all of the hangers, rubber donuts and asbestos shields for a discount price. All of the parts were shipped directly to the muffler shop.   On day one, the muffler shop hit a snag trying to remove the exhaust pipes form the exhaust manifolds. The pipes and the manifold would not separate.  The manager had to torch the pipe from the inside to make a gap in the pipe.  The he was able to compress the pip inside of the manifold and pull the pipe out.  This took about 2 ½ hours.  During the torching, a hot piece of metal fell from the pipes and burned through the manager sneaker and sock.  Fortunately he was not hurt.  The shop got the whole system together and installed it on to the 280SL but it did not line up correctly.  The rear muffler was not straight, it hitting the body of the car and the exhaust tips were sticking out too far from the rear.  The problem was the connector pipes between the center and rear muffle.  We could not get the pipes to line up.  The shop manager needed another day.  On day two, he was going to scrap the MB connector pipes and make a pair of custom pipes.  The next day the job was finished.  Car sound great.

[Lou F]

I know everybody loves pictures.  So I am posing the photos of the removed exhaust system.  Along with the new exhaust pipes, center muffler, rear muffler, connector pipes and the hanger kit.

[Lou F]

Coming up next.  I took a video of what the 280SL sounded like before and after the exhaust system war replaced.  But I shot the video with a HD Sony camcorder and I have to convert the format to upload.  Plus I need to open a YouTube account to upload the video.  When I get the technical problems sorted out I will post the links.  If I take too long just shot me a message to get the videos online.

[Cees Klumper]

Thanks for the update Lou. This turned into a major project! Looking forward to the 'before and after' video material.

[Bonnyboy]

Very nice.  Having just done my exhaust I know what a bear it can be to fit it all together and have it end up straight.

Looking forward to the video.

[Lou F]

As promised, I have before and after videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH3h-PCszWI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1yNqbQFoX0

[Cees Klumper]

Big difference for sure. Thanks for posting.

[kampala]

Lou,

Appreciate the follow-through.  Nice to HEAR the difference ... helps me compare to mine as I think I have a slight leak.

Well done,

Oz