lift points

[enochbell]

I need to have my '64 230sl put up on the lift at the local tire store.  They are nervous about where to position the lift pads.  Can someone help me with explanation or, ideally, a pic?

Thanks,
Greg

[thelews]

Really easy on the 113, assuming the car isn't rotted.

[enochbell]

Thanks John, that is perfect.  My pan is certainly not as clean as yours but it is all original with no rust, so should be OK.

I appreciate it!

Greg

[ja17]

Yes, I use the same lift points as John.   Be sure that the front lift points are positioned in front of the welds as shown. The support member becomes non structural if you move the liftfront  points back toward the rear (behind the welds).

[enochbell]

Thanks Joe, I see exactly what you mean, I appreciate it.  My car has not been on a lift in 15 years!

Greg

[wwheeler]

Also make sure they have a decent size pad on the lift arms so they don't dent your frame rails. Ask me why I know this!!!! 

[georgem]

I think we may have discussed this before, but by using those front lifting points, isn`t the full weight of the engine and front suspension then transferred to the two rubber body mounting points for the front suspension - sure, there is the steering gear attached to the body, but isn`t the vertical drop held up by two rubber mounted bolts?

[ja17]

Using this type of lift does put a lot of strain on the sub-frame mounts in front. If the sub frame mounts are in good condition, they should be fine. If they are old and dry rotted, they will most likely fail. The shock absorbers are the limiting factor  when the car is on a lift. It keeps the sub-frame in check.

[georgem]

Joe,

Ahhh, I forgot about the shocks and of course you are correct - they would stop the engine and sub-frame from hitting the floor if the sub frame mounts let go -  but if they did, it would sure scare the s&%@t out of ya -  until the shocks arrested the fall!!!!!

[mbzse]

.../...the shocks and of course you are correct - they would stop the engine and sub-frame from hitting the floor if the sub frame mounts let go

Not to worry - there are two quite sturdy leaf springs that hold the subframe and engine surely in their position (springs can be seen behind the signal horns in the pic).
However, if your rubber subframe mounts are half-decent, and you suspend your car with the sub-frame hanging for some time (say overnight or longer), they may well expire like Joe writes - at least develop cracks in the rubber.

My advise is, lift the front end of your car with jack liftpoint placed under the flat lower surface of the subframe. Be sure you are behind the engine lower oil pan before lifting, though!
/Hans in Sweden

(pic borrowed from motoringinvestments and modified)
.

 

[dseretakis]

So, if I use a floor jack to lift the vehicle from the front chassis rails as pictured above, and the subframe mounts fail, will I be crushed if I'm lying on the ground under the engine?!

[jameshoward]

How did you read all of the posts and come to that conclusion?!

It's easiest to lift from the central member as sown in the most recently posted picture, then place axle stands under the rails as shown in the photo of John's red car. The shocks will take the strain.

When I had my car on stands for months to replace the diff this year, I ran two large planks down the sides of the car and put the stands under them to spread the load and to get some real height. I also put some supports (more wood) under the front wheels to reduce the strain on any suspension parts on the front. There's a photo of that, I think, on my rear diff post.

Edit. Found the pics here: http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=18228.50  I had then benefit of using a professional floor jack, which can get some serious height. I used this set up because the car was off the ground for a long time due to the time it took to do this work,and the fact that I needed the car to be really stable due to the need to be fairly robust with the car when doing various tasks. The pics don't quite show the final set up, but are close. Like I said, I put wood under the front wheels.

[dseretakis]

I came to that conclusion because it was said in this thread that the shocks will hold the subframe in place should the mounts fail. The subframe will travel a good distance before the shocks stop it. If I'm on my back on the ground there is little clearance between me and the subframe assembly. As you say, I could support the tires but what if the tires are off?

[GGR]

When you lift the car the front suspension goes down completely and I think the shocks are fully extended. WHat you can do is lift the car, put the stands under the chassis rails and then put a wooden piece to support the front axle in the middle. This will save your mounts. I've kept my car like that for quite a while when I was doing my transplant.

What do you need to do on your car?

[jameshoward]

I came to that conclusion because it was said in this thread that the shocks will hold the subframe in place should the mounts fail. The subframe will travel a good distance before the shocks stop it. If I'm on my back on the ground there is little clearance between me and the subframe assembly. As you say, I could support the tires but what if the tires are off?

There are many ways you could do this without fear of death, I think. If the wheels are off, you could put wood under area just behind the discs, where the kingpins join. But if you fear the state of your mounts, perhaps it's worth doing them whilst you're in there.

As asked below, what do you need to do?

[dseretakis]

When you lift the car the front suspension goes down completely and I think the shocks are fully extended. WHat you can do is lift the car, put the stands under the chassis rails and then put a wooden piece to support the front axle in the middle. This will save your mounts. I've kept my car like that for quite a while when I was doing my transplant.

What do you need to do on your car?

Nothing now. It's too cold! Just posting out of curiosity. Besides I'm waiting for you!

[paults1]

Even with the jack stands in place I always keep the floor jack pumped up & slightly touching the underside & away from where I am working.  Adds sense of security.

[dirtrack49]

After reading this post, I have some concerns about the way I have kept my car up on jack stands for the last 2 years plus. I have the vehicle with the jack stands positioned as in the first picture of the car on a four point lift.

Should I be concerned that the sub frame mounts will be ruined? According to the paper work I have with the car, the sub frame mounts were replaced in 2004 with only 150 miles driven since. They still appear to be in good condition for what I can tell by simply looking at them.

Does having the car sit on jack stands detrimental to the sub frame mounts? What about the rear end?

TIA,

Tom L
66 230SL

[jameshoward]

I think if I were planning to leave my car on stands for that long, I'd think it perhaps wise to support it in additional locations to remove unecessary pressure on wear-components. You could place blocks under the front to reduce strain on the mounts, and put the stands on the axle tubes at the rear to remove pressure on the shocks. Axle stands are dirt cheap; chuck a few more under the sprung components to take the additional weight whilst leaving the real weight of the car on the points you're already using. That's sort of the approach I took when replacing the rear axle last year when the car was on stands for a long time.

[ja17]

Yes, always double up on safety measures. Store those wheels and tires, you took off the car, under the car, while it is on stands. If something slips you'll be glad they are there.