soft top rods

[n/a]

I am restoring my soft top frame. Seems the frame had several design changes over the years. Can somebody please tell me if my 1970 280SL frame should have "lateral rods" as pictured in red circle here:
Download Attachment: IN02_0430.jpg
49.91 KB
This post talks about these rods, but my car did not have them and I see noplace even for them to go?
http://index.php?topic=266

The good news is my frame was broken at tension spring (1 side)
mount leg, I successfully welded the leg back on, this post also talks about that issue
http://index.php?topic=1742

Also noticed my car was missing the front most bow, about 6" back from the windshield. Always wondered why the canvas had an "extra" flap hanging down where there was no bow to attach!


Mike McMahon, Baltimore MD
1970 280SL 4-speed manual
olive green ext, bamboo int

[Ben]

From what I can make out the items in the red circle are just the little springs that prevent the canvas getting trapped when folding !

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor

[John A. Dean]

When I went to replace my soft top, the new top, had two flaps of canvas to hold the "floating" rod, 6" back from the windshield, that rivets to the canvas strap connecting the front middle and rear bows.  There were holes in the canvas from previous rivets.  The previous owner had apparently ditched that rod and used a soft top designed for a earlier 113 which didn't use this rod.  One of my books said these rods were added to limit wind buffetting of the top at speed.  My inquires told me the part was not available.  After inspecting another 1969 113 and taking measurements, I was able to buy some brake line from and autoparts store of the correct dimension, cut it down to the correct length, drilled holes in the ends and riveted it to the canvas straps, through the original holes, and then glued the canvas flaps to it.  It looks factory and hasn't caused any problems.

1969 280SL, manual, MB TEX, green/cognac

[jeffc280sl]

John, Very innovative solution.  Congrats!

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

[n/a]

Ben, you called the red circles "little springs that prevent the canvas getting trapped when folding". I think these are item #26 shown a bit lower in this same picture, about 12" long with a curled end. Notice you also posted a year ago in the lateral rod thread I referenced here
http://index.php?topic=266
I just dont see anyplace to mount these on my frame: there are no holes on the rear/bottom bow for rods to slide into, nor is there any visible mount point on the top bow. Guess the design changed?

John, I like your brake line idea to replace missing bow! I had purchased a 3/8" OD copper pipe for this purpose. Found some very detailed photos of a restored frame which shows this bow and notice it is colored brown/tan (maybe even copper?) unlike the other chrome frame pieces, dunno if original was painted steel or maybe it was really copper or wood?
http://www.sltechw113.com/parts/topframe-230SL-concour.JPG
http://www.sltechw113.com/parts/topframe-2ndview.JPG
This pic also shows another thing I was missing is elastic bands over the strapping, so I will add those as well. Finally, the pic shows the cross header (at windshield) is painted tan unlike mine painted black (even though my interior is bamboo).



Mike McMahon, Baltimore MD
1970 280SL 4-speed manual
olive green ext, bamboo int

[Ben]

Mmmmm yes I still feel that the item circled IS item 26, shown in its "mounted" position. There is definitely nothing else there on my car !

I have never seen the other transverse rod near the front, its not on my '64, so I guess its a later addition ! When I changed my soft top there was no flap at this point !

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor

[n/a]

Ben, Sorry that my last post was unclear: I was trying to agree Item #26 is an exploded view of the item circled red. My point was that I dont have this part at all, and it looks like I never did (no visible place to mount them). Do others folks with with late models also lack these rods?

Mike McMahon, Baltimore MD
1970 280SL 4-speed manual
olive green ext, bamboo int

[Ben]

Ahhh I see !

So you dont have any threaded holes on that bow at all ?

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor

[n/a]

Ben, there is no hole on the top surface of my rear bow (i believe the rods should "retract" into the rear bow from the top). There are just 2 threaded holes on the top bow: these are for small screws to hold the metal weatherstrip retainer. I see no other hole on the top bow where the curly end of rod might attach.


Mike McMahon, Baltimore MD
1970 280SL 4-speed manual
olive green ext, bamboo int

[dldubois]

I've got a 1970 280sl and don't have that part either.  #26.  I've also checked my dad's 1969 and he doesn't have it either.

Dana

1970 280sl White (050) 4spd
Corinth, TX

[Ben]

Maybe I should look before I speak !  I DO have that front bow, exactly as descibed, rivetted to the canvas strap !

I do recall reading that the rear bow design changed and having looked again the curled part attaches to two smaller elbow brackets that stem from the second bow !

I'll try to take photos of this..............when the floods go away  :evil:

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor

[rwmastel]

Here is a picture of the spring prior to installation (taken from www.sltechw113.com).

Download Attachment: spring.jpg
24.25 KB

I'll take a picture tonight of what's in my top.  These tops (the frames) did change over the years, but I don't know when or how many times/ways.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[n/a]

Rodd, thanks for helping! The part in question is NOT the tension spring in your attached picture. Its more of a 12" straight rod with one curly end, circled in red in my original post but also shown as item #26 in that same picture
http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/msquared/200481421406_IN02_0430.jpg

So far, it seems that early cars have these and others (maybe late models) do not. My own 1970 is missing these rods and has no place to attach them so I assume a design change was made but am hoping to get some confirmation on this point. If you get a chance to look, do you have this part installed Rodd?

Mike McMahon, Baltimore MD
1970 280SL 4-speed manual
olive green ext, bamboo int

[Jonny B]

The diagram at the start of the thread with the red circle, is for an early model top (coorect assumption?) (part no 13, the chromed strip that is mounted on the outside on the first seam above the rear window)Rodd has this chrome strip on his top and he mentioned that the early cars had this design feature. So that would add further evidence to support that there was a design change. The German 113 club parts book, shows the part with a footnote (the German text - 230SL von #002175-019358!!!; 250SL bis #000003). The description they list (also in German) is abweiser, links (113 774 0365), abweiser, rechts (113 774 0465) (left and right??) and then schraube (113 984 2331).

The SLS site shows a price of Euro 6.

Jonny B
1967 250SL Auto

[rwmastel]

I propose that is IS the same part.  Once installed, this spring gets extended, or un-coiled, way out so that it looks like part #26 in your diagram.

I do have them on my top, but they are both broken and twisted.  They've both torn large holes in the sides of my soft top.  I'll take pictures tonight.

Regarding my top frame, it is not original to my car.  My car's Data Card shows the option code for hard top only (no soft top installed).  It was put on later.  It has the external chrome strip above the plastic window.  An upholstery restorer saw the fabric on my top and said it looked like what Fiat and Alfa Romeo used in the '60s and beyond.  He said this before I told him that my car was originally delivered in Italy and stayed there 10 years before being sent to the USA.  So, it's a very early MB soft top frame that was purchased in Italy and put on the car using local supplier fabric.  I can't tell you when the chome bow was no longer used and I don't know when these side springs were no longer used.

quote:Originally posted by msquared

Rodd, thanks for helping! The part in question is NOT the tension spring in your attached picture. Its more of a 12" straight rod with one curly end, circled in red in my original post but also shown as item #26 in that same picture
http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/msquared/200481421406_IN02_0430.jpg

So far, it seems that early cars have these and others (maybe late models) do not. My own 1970 is missing these rods and has no place to attach them so I assume a design change was made but am hoping to get some confirmation on this point. If you get a chance to look, do you have this part installed Rodd?

Mike McMahon, Baltimore MD
1970 280SL 4-speed manual
olive green ext, bamboo int

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[JimVillers]

Mike ... It looks like you are referring to a spring wire that is used to keep the top out of the latch that holds the rear of the frame up when raising or lowering the top.

Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, 190E 2.3-16 Kompressor

[n/a]

The consensus seems to be:
1) late cars (69 or later) do NOT have the lateral rods (part #26), while early cars do have these rods.

2) most (all?) cars seem to have a front bow 6" behind windshield, this bow does not fully span across to the frame rails, it ends at the longitudinal straps where it is riveted to the straps.

I have uploaded some pics which show extra details:
http://www.activewire.net/mcmahon/softtop/top1.jpg
Top1 shows the tension spring Rodd mentions (green) but I dont think this spring uncoils in any significant way, its range of motion is maybe  60 degrees total rotation. In yellow is the tension spring mount leg which had broken off my frame, the weldpoint is not really visible but the approximate weld location is circled Red. My ARC welded did a decent job, a few shots of chrome spraypaint made the repair disappear.

http://www.activewire.net/mcmahon/softtop/top2.jpg
Top2 shows my rear bow which has no holes into which a lateral rod (part 26) might be inserted.

http://www.activewire.net/mcmahon/softtop/top3.jpg
Top3 shows my second bow which has no such elbow brackets which Ben describes to attach part 26.


Mike McMahon, Baltimore MD
1970 280SL 4-speed manual
olive green ext, bamboo int

[Ben]

No that spring that Rodd talks about is also present on my car, further down, aswell as the other spring that Mike is questioning.

I also have the chrome trim, although not currently fitted.

I really need to find my DigiCam and take a few snaps !

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor