a clip on the right drive shaft of a 66 230sl ?

[Rodolfo]

Today I removed the compensation spring (a bit of a **** ....).

Still very difficult to acces what is under the bellows.


Anyway, I am now almost certain it is the bolt which came loose. It is a hexagonal.

Sure it is 14 mm , because it is a long way in there?
 Is it a normal righthanded or a left spiral?

I screwed clockwise, but I think it came out that way. All of it is very difficult because of narrow access to it.


Maybe I have to remove the swinging right axle. Is that easy with the assembly under the car?

Many thanks on forward,

Rudy

[Rodolfo]

I ment: Is it  15 mm hexagonal?

[mbzse]

.../... it is the bolt which came loose. It is a hexagonal.

Sure it is 14 mm , because it is a long way in there?
 Is it a normal righthanded or a left spiral?

Yes, it is a hex head 14mm normal right-handed (on later cars, as Joe A writes, changed to an Allen type).
I would suggest you obtain a M-B workshop manual and yes remove the rear axle from the car. The rear axle diff work is not trivial
/Hans in Sweden
.

[jameshoward]

Yes, it is a hex head 14mm normal right-handed (on later cars, as Joe A writes, changed to an Allen type).
I would suggest you obtain a M-B workshop manual and yes remove the rear axle from the car. The rear axle diff work is not trivial
/Hans in Sweden
.

If you haven't already trawled the threads on this subject, including mine, whcih practically details the rebuild of a rear axle and where it doesn't cover detail references many other threads, then now's the time to start. For my money, if you can't tighten and lock off the bolt, you should just remove the axle. Things will get a lot easier. Plus, I can only imagine the fun you'll have trying to replace the compensating spring with the axle on the car. Still, bloody well done for getting it off like that!

One of the jobs you may find useful is in my rear diff thread and is a pdf copy from the BBB.

[George Des]

As noted above, the rear axle teardown is well chronicled in the Forum. If you decide to go beyond axle bearing or pinion seal replacement. You are well advised to remove the entire axle from the car. It will be so much easier to get at the areas that may be of issue and again a great time to address those areas that may need attention later on.

[Rodolfo]

I am a bit afraid for the work of total realignment if I take the whole rear down. The car was superb in handling, don't want to have problems there.

So I would like to have advice only to take out the right swinging axle off and to have better access then.Is that possible?


best regards, Rudy

[jameshoward]

Alignment isn't too difficult. You can do it with a plumb bob and some careful measuring, or there are more elaborate methods such as The excellent pipework frame. Anyway, it's probably the least of the challenges you'd face, I think. Just carefully mark things as you go and you should be fine.

[Rodolfo]

James,

I believe that and I really appreciate the good advice. I might endup taking the rear down.
But I just would want to be able to judge if it is also possible if I remove only the pivotting right axle, while the differential and left axle stays under the car.

Many thanks, Rudy

[George Des]

This may be possible to do but I believe it will be with much difficulty especially when it comes time to put it all back together. That right side a le tube is very heavy ans awkward to handle. Keeping this all aligned as you drive the pivot pin is a chore enough when you have the whole unit out on the shop floor. Perhaps Joe A or Dan have done this but I know from my experience that It would have been a real bear to wrestle with withe unit on the car. My two cents.

[Rodolfo]

Today I removed the complete rear axle from the car. (took my 3 hours more).Then I examined further . See the attached photo. Bolt had came loose and the universal joint is broken. That was the cause. Glad I opened the whole thing.

I will look now for this spare part. I wonder if I not better buy original Mercedes part (if avaliable). Don't want to lose quality on this centerpiece. Or are they same quality?

Now it is also tempting to change the crown wheel and pinion in oder to have other ratio than my 4.08:1. Although the differential is still ok, but the issue of rpm at highway , you know.

I must say: thanks a lot for all the advices I got here. That gave me the courage to take the whole rear off. Now I am glad I did.

best regards, Rudy

[DaveB]

Good find! My 230SL parts book lists the joint as 112 350 00 28 but the SLS site suggests it's 111 350 00 28. Note these part numbers are for the uni joint alone, the entire slip joint is 110 350 02 13
There's some previous discussion of lower ratios for 230SL. Dan Caron suggests the 230SL is not as well suited to the lower ratio as the 250/280. I see SLS now sells a 3.25, is that the one you mentioned earlier in this thread? According to Dan's advice that may make your car a little sluggish but I guess it depends on how you like to drive. I'm fairly sure that 4.08 and 3.75 are the only factory ratios for the 230SL rear axle. The SLS page also indicates that's the case.

[George Des]

Wow! That thing must have really been flailing around in there. I've heard these joints are very, very expensive if you can find them. I'm not sure what the interchangeability of these things are amongst the various rear axles, since some are designed to work with the clip and others are not. My guess is your best bet would be to find a complete good used axle. Unless you are a masochist, I would not attempt changing out the gears. There are a lot of very precise measurements that need to be taken to ensure the correct gear mesh between the crown and the pinion. Setting the backlash is also another adjustment that has to be done and you would also need to replace the crush sleeve that sits on the pinion shaft between the two pinion bearings. It's a big job! Let us know how you make out on this.

George

[ja17]

Rudy,

I never saw one break off like that! Usually just the splinned end snaps off!  You will find that any of those major parts are very, very expensive. You may want to find a good used universal/slip joint and replace your broken one. There are plenty of them out there used. Be careful there are at least three variations.

I looked up the current dealer price on the new 3,69 gears  $2,000.00 US  a slip joint/universal (not sure if it is the one you need) was $1,100.00 US.   I would find a good used universal/slip joint used ($100.00)  or change out the whole rear diff. 

[Rodolfo]

'I never saw one break off like that! Usually just the splinned end snaps off!  You will find that any of those major parts are very, very expensive. You may want to find a good used universal/slip joint and replace your broken one. There are plenty of them out there used. Be careful there are at least three variations. '

Which variations of this joint are there? I have a 4.08:1 diff. from 1966.

I see a complete rear for sale with a 3.75:1 diff. from a 230 sl 1964 in California. Is anubody in the neighborhood (probably LA area) to give it a check (user proforauto at ebay) ? That way I would also have a better differential ratio.

best regards, Rudy

[George Des]

Rudy, I took another look at your picture of the joint. Looks like it is just the  end that attaches to the universal cross and crown gear that is gone. If you can't find the entire clipless type joint, you may be able to salvage just this end piece off a unit that has the clips. Only reason I mention this is that there are probably more clip type rears out there than the clipless type. I can't. Vouch for the compatibility issues but the clip itself is associated with the sliding mechanism which is inside the unit on the left side of your picture. If the slider is otherwise good it is worth a try. Problem I see if you just try to replace the complete universal with a unit that requires a clip is that you will then most likely also need to install a different right axle shaft-one that uses a clip. Others may want to weigh in on this.

[ja17]

I think they all have the slider in the assembly. The differences are the diameter and the splines in the various types, depending on year and model.  Rudy, why not just replace the universal/slider assembly with a good used one?   Much easier to ship and much less expensive.

[George Des]

I agree Joe that would be the best way for him to go. My cmt above was more directed towards the ability of finding a complete universal/sliding unit that will be compatible with his right side axle shaft

[DaveB]

Porfor Auto have been on ebay a long time and their feedback is good, so they are probably ok. Their prices are high though.
It should not be too hard to find a 3,75 rear axle closer to home as that was the standard ratio for euro cars. 4,08 was standard in 230SL destined for the US, or with a 5-speed.

[George Des]

Agree on finding something closer to home. The shipping to Europe on it outsized piece like that would be crazy not to mention the hassle with customs

[Rodolfo]

I think to go the following route:

-I buy a second hand universal/slider joint for 300 euro.
-I keep my complete rear axle , not to have to exchange the drum brakes and keep the matching number of the diff
- I change gears and pinion to a 3.25 (although 3.46 is also available, have to decide there)


To make my odo/speed correct I have some issues:

I know my car is a US model. They changed the indicator plate of the speedo to European: so speed is correct now for the 4,08, but odo is 1,6 off. If I change now the ratio to 3.25 or 3.46 will there be a solution to have the speed/odo corrected (Palo Alto)? Or too many combinated changes now?

Looking forward to the wisdom and experience,

Rudy
-

[jameshoward]

Rudy,

Are you sure you can change the crown wheel from a 4,08 to 3,25 or even 3,46 and still fit it in the 4,08 pumpkin; there's quite a difference in size between the 4,08 and others? I would not have thought that possible. Who has advised you that this is doable?

A complete 3,46 axle from a donor sedan would set you back around $3-400 I would have thought. You'll just need to do some digging around. There were plenty of the things built. I went from a 4,08 to a 3,46, but was unaware that it was possible to simply swap the crown wheel, etc, hence my initial question.

I wouldn't worry too much about the datacard numbers too much. The key ones are the ones stamped on the soft top cover, bonnet and transmission mount in my book. The original engine would be great, but I can't see anyone getting too excited about a different rear axle, unless your car is concours, in which case I can imagine that there would be an impact on the price, although I know nothing about cars with this level of originality. I have all matching numbers, but will keep the old rear diff (probably until I get bored of lugging it around every time I move...).

[Rodolfo]

James,

it is a Belgian Mercedes specialist who confirmed me that it would fit in the 4,08. The 3.46 gear set would be new on the market. s$
Soon it would be at SLS as well.

How are your experiences with a 3.46? Yours is a manual gearbox as well? Would the 3.25 be a stretch too far?

best regards, Rudy

[jameshoward]

That sounds interesting. Never heard of it. Are they saying that they can do a 3,46 and a 3,25 that would fit in the original 4,08 pumpkin?

I haven't driven my car much with the 3,46 fitted due to a ridiculous workload last year. I would say that the acceleration is less pronounced and the car labours more, so it's not as nippy as it was with the 4,08. However, it has given me a significant drop in rpm at cruising speed, and this is what I was after. Alfred has in a few threads posted a really useful graph that shows rpm x mph across the range of ratios. You should review that before making a decision so you can see what you're getting. My view would be that 3,25 would be less than ideal and would make the car less enjoyable to drive. That said, I seem to recall that at least one owner has taken that route.

[Rodolfo]

I finally  found following parts : new original joint, 3.25 pinion and gear , all new rubber and bearing sets. So now I will go for the adventure of refurbishing  the whole rear axle and differential. Wish me good luck.
Anyone has documentation about refurbishing differential ?