ZF 5-speed Gearbox

[n/a]

Hello all,
I am looking at a 1969 280 SL fitted with a 5-speed ZF gearbox. I would like some advice regarding:
1) How rare are these? How valuable?
2) Are they noisier than the 4-speed?
3) How difficult is maintenance? what about parts availability?

Thanks....The serach is on-going for a decent 280 SL. Let me know if you have one for sale.
Mo

[TheEngineer]

I just went thru an exercise with a ZF 5speed gearbox for a '63 Maserati. Same box. A shifting fork was worn thin. The owner wanted me to build it up by welding: I quoted him about $600 because of the various treatments involved. That did not include my welding cost. I also contacted ZF in Germany. I understand that spare parts are very difficult to get.

1969 280SL,Signal Red, A/T, P/S, A/C, Both tops.    Ret. engr. 1967 230SL - Sold

[mbzse]

I’m sure DanC will add to this but here are things from my end:
1) Between 1 and 2% of the W113’s had the ZF fitted as an original option (SA230 and 232). Value as a loose item, between 5 and 10 000$, depending on shape and if all additional items are present (linkage, propeller shaft etc). If ZF box is mounted in an original car today and has original ZF serial No as per vehicle data card fitted, it will add even more than 10k to “normal” W113 value.
2) are you kidding?   ZF is a high-end manufacturer
3) Maintenance none, except careful gear changing before box has become warm. Of course, rigorous oil changes. Spare parts: almost non-existant. We discussed here on the list to form a ZF group supporting each other.
/Hans in Stockholm

[JimVillers]

The ZF is a wonderful transmission but in my opinion it is a little noisier than the 4-speed.  I have heard that there were 865 ZF's installed by Mercedes in the several models of cars that the option was available.  Parts are essentially not available with the exception of the bearings, which are readily available from any bearing shop.  The fifth gear makes the car much more drivable on modern highways.  If you have the chance to buy one, don't ask, buy it.

Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, 190E 2.3-16 Kompressor

[hauser]

Hatch and Sons has a restored '69 for sale, $75,000.00

1969 280sl 5 spd        1999 ML320          Gainesville,Fl.

[Benz Dr.]

There were 865 113's with this box and about 1,400 cars in total. The 109 and 108 cars with the aluminum block ( 189 engine? ) are the rarest. I once saw a 300SE Cab. at Meadow Brook with a 5 speed. This car is owned by MB. Guy said only 3 were made.

You can get parts but they're very exspensive. One guy in Germany has over 90% of the remaining inventory. The box only holds one liter of oil so use the best there is - I use AMSOIL 100% synthetic.

Shifting IS difficult when the box is cold because the synrco rings are steel. Only the reverse gear has a brass ring so all gears have them - a unique feature. 1 - 2 gear is way over by the left and the shifter has a pretty strong spring on it. I'm 6'3'' so I had to turn the shifter around so I'd have a bit more leg room as my knee was getting caught between the shift knob, my hand and the steering wheel while turning right. I think a 250/280 would have a bit more room since the steering wheel sits out more.

5th gear lowers engine speed by about 500 RPM They can be a bit noisey but that's probably worn bearings. Buy a car with the 5 speed in it since it's the best and cheapest way to get one. You can always install a 4 speed box if the 5 speed fails.

Daniel G Caron

[hauser]

Dan, I heard from a 300sl enthusiast that someone purchased the license to manufacture these ZF 5 speed transmissions.  Have you heard anything about this?

1969 280sl 5 spd        1999 ML320          Gainesville,Fl.

[Benz Dr.]

No, I didn't hear that. They'd be far more than the price of an original used one if they were made today. There's a lot of parts inside one of these units and the counter shaft has a gear cut right into it. If that gets damaged the whole box is toast.

Daniel G Caron

[JimVillers]

Shifting into second was very hard when I first got my car.  Then I discovered that the previous owner had used 90W gear lube verses ATF as the transmission lubricant.  After replacing the oil with Mobil 1 synthetic ATF, it now shifts smoothly into second.

Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, 190E 2.3-16 Kompressor

[Benz Dr.]

Synthetic ATF is the only thig to use in these cars. ALL the trans used in these cars would benifit from using a higher quality oil. The cost is very small when you think about it.

Daniel G Caron

[hauser]

quote:Originally posted by JimVillers

Shifting into second was very hard when I first got my car.  Then I discovered that the previous owner had used 90W gear lube verses ATF as the transmission lubricant.  After replacing the oil with Mobil 1 synthetic ATF, it now shifts smoothly into second.

Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, 190E 2.3-16 Kompressor

Jim was it difficult even after the transmission was warmed up?

1969 280sl 5 spd        1999 ML320          Gainesville,Fl.

[JimVillers]

Hauser ... My 5-speed shifts easily into second at "reasonable" speeds.    It is a little harder than third but easier than first.  I routinely downshift to second if I am rolling through an intersection.

Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, 190E 2.3-16 Kompressor

[Benz Dr.]

Just a note:
 hauser's trans is not a ZF. It's something newer and works better. I know this, I've driven the car before and worked on it a few years ago.
Whatever it is, it's a good option for someone wanting a 5 speed.

Daniel G Caron

[George Des]

I've got the ZF s5-20 5 speed in my Itaian 230Sl. I've had since 1976. The box was rebuilt in Mannheim Germany in 1983. It always has been a bit sluggish when cold but smooths out once driven a short distance. Only time I noticed a real problem--gears grinding becasue synchros not working properly due to higher viscosity of the gear oil-- with the box was when a shop inadvertently filled it with gear oil instead of ATF. It has been properly filled with ATF since the rebuild and I have not experienced any problem since.

George Des
1967 230Sl 5 Speed Euro
2001 S430

[hauser]

Yes my transmission is a 5 speed Getrag.  It works flawlessly with a crisp short throw engagement of the gears.   You can read the details of this 5 speed transmission in the "Photo Gallery" section titled "Photos From Hauser."  

Earlier today I was speaking with a German auto broker on the west coast.  Of course our discussions were focused on the W113.  I told him about my car and its unique 5 speed only to find out that many of the Germans are adapting similar transmissions to their cars.  

Ben from Ireland was wanting specifics on the Getrag. Once I get her on a lift I'll try to get some numbers off of it and post them for those intrested.

My biggest concern with this Getrag is that one day it would need servicing.  I made a few calls and found a place that could take care of any issues with this transmission.  The company name is Metric Mechanic www.metricmechanic.com  and not to be confused with Metric Motors a Mercedes engine supplier.

1969 280sl 5 spd        1999 ML320          Gainesville,Fl.

[Benz Dr.]

I believe this box is made of aluminum. It has two small flanges at the top near the back and won't fit into the tunnel. The way they got around this was to cut two small holes for clearance and then cover them with cupped shapped metal caps. It's really that tight in there.
This trans has a lovely whine to it - almost sounds like a tubo or super charger. I put AMSOIL ATF in there BTW, so don't go and drain it out. It's good for a long time but keep an eye on the level.


On a fifferent note: Had a '63 230SL show up today. Very early car at 164th one made. It has a trans problem for sure. Looks like a gear broke or possibly a bearing let go and a tooth chipped off one of the gears. The piece got between two turning gears and the shock actually split the casting at the bottom over 5 inches!
 Of course all the oil leaked out through the crack and it was completely dry when I removed the drain plug. A number teeth from broken gears also fell out. I don't think it ran dry because the whole assembly still turns freely and there was no burn smell or scorched oil inside the box.

This will take a whole new box to fix but I have a used one from an early car. I have to say, I've never seen this happen in the 27 years I've been at this.

Daniel G Caron

[Ben]

quote:Ben from Ireland was wanting specifics on the Getrag. Once I get her on a lift I'll try to get some numbers off of it and post them for those intrested

......yeah I'd still love to hear more, particularly what vehicle donates the box, although I now have a spare 4speed here too !

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor

[Benz Dr.]

I could see Hillary Clinton as Pres of the USA. I could see men walking on Mars. I could see better if I wore glasses but I can't ever see Alex posting on this site.

 These '' professionals '' never have time for such mundane things except if it's for their own business or when you're buying something. I know this first hand.

Daniel G Caron