Help identify this bracket

[rb6667]

I found this bracket in a 108 sedan loose under where the radio would be located.  I suspect it is an amplifier bracket, but wanted to see if any of you can confirm.  Am I on the right track?

Many thanks

[andyburns]

I think you are right.  On RHD  W108 cars this bracket is usually found tucked up under the passenger side foot well bolted to the back of the firewall. 

[scoot]

Yes, that is exactly what it is.  Here's a picture of one with an early stereo amplifier still in it that I removed from a 108...

[rb6667]

Thank You Andy and Scoot.  Other questions:

Is this bracket only used on the 108 or also used on other models like our 113"s?

Becker Bracket only?

What Becker radios would need an amplifier?

Unfortunately, the radio was gone in this car, but did have the kick panel speakers and the rear deck speakers still in the car.  I snagged those front speakers, but the rear speakers were toast.  Perfect grilles however.  I got those rear grilles!

Speakers are marked Dortman.  There is an ink stamp in red ink that reads: Made in Western Germany.  Donor car is a 1972 280SE 4.5

Many thanks guys!

[scoot]

Is this bracket only used on the 108 or also used on other models like our 113"s?

It is not used in a 113.  In a 113 the amplifier is connected directly to the radio with pivoting arms that allow the amplifier to be in an position above, below, and behind the radio.  Both the radio and the amplifier have mounting holes near the rear for this purpose (the brackets).  This bracket might also be used in a W111 but the W111 is a bit early for radios with separate amplifiers, but still possible.  The primary use would be in a W108/W109.

Becker Bracket only?

Probably.  It would probably apply for other brands with separate amplifiers, but I think during this time period anything coming out of the factory with a radio would have a Becker.  If you had a dealer-installed radio, it would probably be a Blaupunkt, and in that case I don't know if the bracket would apply.

What Becker radios would need an amplifier?

Here is a pretty good list with dates.  It is _not_ complete.  Anything that says "2 piece" means it has a separate amplifier

http://www.blackforestllc.com/becker/

[66andBlue]

... In a 113 the amplifier is connected directly to the radio with pivoting arms that allow the amplifier to be in an position above, below, and behind the radio.  ....

I don't think this is quite correct, in a 113 the amplifier cannot be above or below the radio because there is no room in the dash. It can only be behind but tethered by a cable and mounted on the firewall with a bracket that looks very different from the one discussed here. See bracket photos in the technical manual.

[69280sl]

I have always had a couple of problems with this Blackforest chart.

According to this there is no correct OEM Becker for a 1968 car.

The stereo Europa 1969 - 1973 predates the Mono Europa 1971 - 1980. Is that logical?

Am I misreading something?

Gus

[scoot]

I don't think this is quite correct, in a 113 the amplifier cannot be above or below the radio because there is no room in the dash. It can only be behind but tethered by a cable and mounted on the firewall with a bracket that looks very different from the one discussed here. See bracket photos in the technical manual.

What I can say is that in my 67 250 SL it is mounted I think at an angle under the radio and attached to it with ears on either side.  Note that my radio is a small-face becker, but the chassis is the big size, so I don't think it makes any difference.  The radio also slides into a clamp bracket in back for support that is I think Pagoda-specific. 

[scoot]

I have always had a couple of problems with this Blackforest chart.
According to this there is no correct OEM Becker for a 1968 car.
The stereo Europa 1969 - 1973 predates the Mono Europa 1971 - 1980. Is that logical?

The chart is incomplete.  Post early 250SL the Pagoda takes a big-face becker, probably a choice of options.  The first would be a big-face Europa TR, which has a separate amplifier.  If you want a no-amplifier radio you would use a single piece Europa, which technically might be a year or two later than 1968 but cosmetically pretty much identical.

[rb6667]

Very good information here guys.  I ask about this bracket since I would like to use it in my pagoda if it will work  Otherwise, I'll continue looking for the correct one.

Anyone have a picture of a radio and the amplifier mounted in a 113?

We'll figure it out I'm sure.

Many thanks

[mmizesko]

Europa Mono came with my 1970 SL.  Switched to a Europa II stereo last year with the separate 7w/channel amp, mounted by a tight bracket (Thank you alfred).  It is supposed to be mounted on the firewall, but if you have AC, there is no room.  Picture below shows LHD mounting on 230.  With the help of Joe Alexander, we simply velcro's the amp to the area behind the glovebox, which works fine.  Actually much easier to get to.

Mike Mizesko
Columbus, OH

[mmizesko]

BTW, Brackets are cheap from Becker USA in NJ.

[scoot]

BTW, Brackets are cheap from Becker USA in NJ.

I thought they were no longer selling parts, only re-builds...   I guess maybe a bracket...

[mmizesko]

Scoot,

Just bought a bracket last year for the power amp.  I think it was $15-20 plus shipping....  It was used.

Mike

[scoot]

Just bought a bracket last year for the power amp.  I think it was $15-20 plus shipping....  It was used.

Good to know.  As much as anything else I'm grumbley because they won't sell dial scale and parts like those anymore...

[scoot]

Europa Mono came with my 1970 SL.  Switched to a Europa II stereo last year with the separate 7w/channel amp, mounted by a tight bracket (Thank you alfred).  It is supposed to be mounted on the firewall, but if you have AC, there is no room.  Picture below shows LHD mounting on 230.  With the help of Joe Alexander, we simply velcro's the amp to the area behind the glovebox, which works fine.  Actually much easier to get to.

Interesting diagram, I am fairly sure that this is not how mine is installed in my early 250 SL.  Next time I take out the glove box I'll try and snap a picture or two.   I'm 99% sure that the amp is connected to the radio with ears that let it be at different angles, and that there is a bracket on the firewall that acts as a slide-in clamp for stability.

[66andBlue]

What I can say is that in my 67 250 SL it is mounted I think at an angle under the radio and attached to it with ears on either side.  Note that my radio is a small-face becker, ......

Interesting that you or the PO could get both parts in. I guess it helps that the dash opening in a 230SL/early 250SL is larger and you can squeeze the assembly through, most likely it will not work in a 280SL.
However, I have a few installation instructions from Becker, starting with one from 1964 for the 230SL and later ones, and NONE of them show a piggy-back arrangement of radio and amplifier, all of them have the separate amp on the firewall.

[66andBlue]

Anyone have a picture of a radio and the amplifier mounted in a 113?

Have you not looked at the photos and the description in the technical manual?  
See: http://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/Radio
The larger "TR" bracket is available: http://www.authenticclassics.com/Becker-Amplifier-Mounting-Bracket-p/auth-004632.htm

[scoot]

Interesting that you or the PO could get both parts in. I guess it helps that the dash opening in a 230SL/early 250SL is larger and you can squeeze the assembly through, most likely it will not work in a 280SL.

The _radio_ opening is smaller on the 230SL / early 250SL.  My recollection is that the radio went through the glovebox, but it could have been up from the bottom.  I remember going through the absolute hell of lowering the Kuhlmeister AC unit to do this...

However, I have a few installation instructions from Becker, starting with one from 1964 for the 230SL and later ones, and NONE of them show a piggy-back arrangement of radio and amplifier, all of them have the separate amp on the firewall.

I don't doubt it.  Maybe mine is strange.  But I'll try and take a picture.

[scoot]

This might be the radio mounting bracket that I'm thinking of on the firewall of my 250 SL...

http://www.authenticclassics.com/Radio-Mounting-Bracket-for-230SL-250SL-280SL-p/auth-003670.htm

[66andBlue]

The _radio_ opening is smaller on the 230SL / early 250SL.  .....

Hi Scott,
read again what I wrote: "the dash opening in a 230SL/early 250SL is larger"!
Perhaps you forgot that the radio is first mounted to the "instrument panel cover" that has the "small radio opening" and then it is pushed into the cavity with the mounting bracket (#6) fixing the radio to the firewall (and also providing a good ground contact) and then the panel cover  is screwed to the dash.  Next time you have your dash apart try and check whether you can get the radio-amplifier package through the larger dash opening. Would be helpful to know.

[mmizesko]

Scoot,

yes, the bracket that holds the radio is also a ground, but that is a different bracket than the one that holds the "powerpack" amp.  In the sedans, I think the amp and radio were nested together, but the 113 had them separated.  But, I am a mere neophyte compared to the sages on this forum.

The becker brackets are attached:  http://www.beckerautosound.com/Classic/brackets_connectors_cables.html

Mike

[scoot]

Hi Scott,
read again what I wrote: "the dash opening in a 230SL/early 250SL is larger"!
Perhaps you forgot that the radio is first mounted to the "instrument panel cover" that has the "small radio opening" and then it is pushed into the cavity with the mounting bracket (#6) fixing the radio to the firewall (and also providing a good ground contact) and then the panel cover  is screwed to the dash.  Next time you have your dash apart try and check whether you can get the radio-amplifier package through the larger dash opening. Would be helpful to know.

I interpreted "dash opening" as the radio hole.  I think (but may remember incorrectly) that I didn't take out the dash panel to install the radio.  I think it went in through the back or from underneath, and I think that the amp is connected to the radio.  But I could remember all of this incorrectly.   

[rb6667]

Very useful discussion here.  In short, the bracket I have obviously will not work on the 113.   Thanks to all of you for your guidance.