Oil Filter Washers and Seals

[glennard]

Hey Guys,  Contrast a 'Spin on' filter with the MB 'Cartridge' design. The Spin on is one piece with 2 seal points- center thread seal and outer rubber ring seal.  Simple, 3/4 turn seal, rarely leaks, no critical tolerances, cheap to make.  The MB cartridge design has 10 or so pieces, very tolerance critical, replacement filter critical, etc.  What washer, o-ring, filter, diaphram, etc. goes where?  Leaks??  German engineering?  Which is better?
      The MB 180, 190, 200, 220, 230, 250, 280, etc. in-line engines had many oil filter housing and cartridge filter designs.  I think(?) some of the block mountings are interchangeable.  Other considerations are oil cooler connections, full/partial flow, relief valve, oil pressure tap, etc.  The various BBBs show at least 4 different designs.  One of my favorites is the accordian diaphram on the top!  All these designs are tolerance, spacing critical.  Two of the three inch diameter o-rings in the top groove, wrong filter, wrong seal(?), clogged relief valve, etc and filtration is breeched.
My guess is that along about revision 'xyz' the oil filter engineer stuck a 1/2" washer on the stub to take up any slack to seal the filter for full flow.
      Some of the MB filters came with 5 or so washers, seals, o-rings, etc.   Some filters had half o-rings top and bottom, as I remember.  
     We all want our filters to filter and protect the engine.  The 113's had various designs.  So, the bottom line is - Make sure you have the right washer, o-ring, seal, etc. combo, so the top and bottom of the filter is sealed and the oil goes thru the filter and not the bypass.

[ja17]

Hello,

The bottom line here is all the seals and oil filters are the same on all W113 engines. The later engines used one additional metal seal for the oil cooler. If you get a factory like filter kit it will come with some but not all the seals. Seals #37, #39, #40 are not usually replaced at every oil change and are not in the filter kit, but they must be inspected so have some on hand they are only a few bucks.  Alfred has shown what comes in the basic filter kit (blue numbers). Order the red numbered seals to have on hand.  

Yes, glennard there are many filter housing designs on these engines. In fact the early cars like the 170s and 300SLs had only a fine screen and no filter at all!  The early 190SLs and early ponton sedans (180,190,220) had a filter and a screen! ( I guess they just didn't trust a paper filter technology yet). The 300SL remained without a paper filter (just the fine screen through end of production in 1963! Around 1958 almost all the other Mercedes engines changed over to the all paper oil filter. This configuration of oil filter and seals remained the same on most Mercedes 4 and 6 cylinder sedans and SLs until around 1973 when Mercedes began incorporating all the rubber seals into the oil filter cartridges of the new engine designs.

These days they have even moved to spin on filters on some models.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[waqas]

Folks,
If during an oil change the upper filter seal 000-180-3380 is found missing, and needs to be ordered from MBZ, and waited for, and the car needs to be moved from it's location until the seal arrives, and hence the filter is replaced without the upper seal (this is a purely hypothetical situation, you realize  :oops:  ), can one remove the filter housing without draining all the oil? (just removing the filter housing to add the seal)

WAQAS in Austin, Texas

[J. Huber]

I would think so. Just make sure you have an idea of how much oil you need to re-add to bring things up to level.

James
63 230SL

[waqas]

Thanks for the lightning fast reply!  Of course, I'd have to wait until Tuesday for the seal to arrive if this wasn't a completely hypothetical situation  

WAQAS in Austin, Texas

[717-113]

quote:Originally posted by waqas

Folks,
If during an oil change the upper filter seal 000-180-3380 is found missing, and needs to be ordered from MBZ, and waited for, and the car needs to be moved from it's location until the seal arrives, and hence the filter is replaced without the upper seal (this is a purely hypothetical situation, you realize  :oops:  ), can one remove the filter housing without draining all the oil? (just removing the filter housing to add the seal)

WAQAS in Austin, Texas

Wouldn't all the oil drain out when you unbolt the canister to put the seal in? I just changed my oil tonight, and #37,#39 and #40 were missing. But I had to put it back together because I gotta move my car around. Anyway, if I were to go in just to do those seals, Wont all the new oil drain out? or is it just the amount thats in the canister drain out? Thanks

[mbzse]

quote:Originally posted by 717-113

Originally posted by waqas

.../...can one remove the filter housing without draining all the oil? (just removing the filter housing to add the seal)

Yes, certainly. The oil in the canister is the only you need to dispose of.
I said it before, I'll say it again: That garden hose seal is of utmost importance for the well being of your engine!!

[Bob G ✝︎]

What is the corrrect cooper crush washer for the oil cooler on a 1968 280SL? Does it come  in the kit  or can they be ordered separdely?

Bob Geco

[graphic66]

You can reuse the old copper washers if you heat them red hot and quench them in water to re anneal them.

[Bob G ✝︎]

How difficult is it to remove #40 rubber seal the square one a top the filter canister when it is off. I understand these get brittle with time. I have all new important seals for my oil filter canister to replace.
Are their any special instructions once the oil canister is off? are their any other parts I need to  remove and take to the work bench that may have the seals I need to remove. I have a good set of long pick tools. I just would like to get this done and do it right the first time.
Joe if you get this message please give me some tips. I only got to go to one seminar of  yours sorry I was not around for more, comes 2009 I will drag my self , hospital bed, wheel chair ,cruches. I will not miss another seminar.

[waqas]

quote:Originally posted by Bob G

How difficult is it to remove #40 rubber seal the square one a top the filter canister when it is off.

This seal is very easy to remove. Simply use the appropriate right-angled hook tool. Stab the seal, twist it out of the groove and then pull it out.

Replacing it is another story entirely. First time I did this it took me a half hour of sweat and frustration to replace, and a cold lager to calm me down afterwards. Basically, don't be in a hurry when you do it. These instructions will only make sense once you've taken out the old seal.

Procedure: twist the new seal and slide it into the cylindrical hole. Using a small flat screw-driver, gently start seating the seal from one side. Work your way around the entire inner circumference of the seal until it is seated without kinks. It will take a few attempts before you get it in right. And have a few cold ones around to calm you down as you hold back the expletives.

[280sl1968]

Sorry to resurrect an old topic, but it is an important one so I thought it best to continue from here.

I am changing the oils filter and all seals.

The 'donut' seal at the bottom of the canister is quite hard, so I need to change it. Problem is, I can't get it out as the metal 'hat' described by Joe Alexander won't move. Is there an easy way to get this out?


Thanks

David

[Jonny B]

I have done this for several friends (and my own first, of course) here in SoCal. I took a small punch and ground a small notch in one side (just up from the tip) (I would include a photo, but am traveling). Invert the canister, and insert the punch from the outside, so the tip makes contact with the metal piece holding the rubber donut in place. Just do some small taps to get started, and work your way around. You will probably deform the metal retainer, but this is easily knocked back into shape. You may have to give it some pretty good whacks to pop it free. The first time I did it, I had an old filter canister, and had to knock it pretty well, but it did come out. Same story for the other ones I have done or helped with. The last two, the rubber donut was so hard, it just broke apart into pieces.

To be clear, there are two seals at the bottom of the canister, a small one inside the metal hat, and the larger one around the bottom of the canister. Easiest to remove the metal hat as noted above, and change both seals.

[280sl1968]

Jonny, thanks for that. I actually did start using a similar method last night involving trying to tap it out from the underside through the bolt hole using a flat head screwdriver. I started damaging the metal edge of the 'hat' so I stopped (as an aside, are these still available as replacements?)

Given that the donut seal was hard and brittle, I resorted to breaking it and pulling it out. This left the metal 'hat' in place, but without the seal, it left a gap under the rim of the 'hat' where I could get an old metal steak knife with a 90 degree bend in the end of the blade, under the rim and gradually pull it free. Provided you are OK to sacrifice the old donut seal (which you probably are if attempting this job), I would recommend this as the way to go if the 'hat' is stuck fast.

With the new small rubber washer seal that fits under the hat and seals around the bolt, I found that once in place under the hat, inserting the threaded bolt through it started shredding the edge of the rubber because it was such a good tight seal. If I was doing this again, I might push the bolt into the canister first, then push the small rubber washer on to the bolt, put the donut and metal hat on over that, and then use the filter to push that all down to the base of the canister.

Anyhow it all went back together and appears to be leak free. Will post photos later in case it helps others.


David

[Jonny B]

Yes, you can do a bit of damage to the small metal hat, but it is relatively soft metal, and the damage you do inflict is not really critical, and the hat can be bent back into shape.

Cool tip about the alternate method.

[Benz Dr.]

Hello Bob,
Naj is correct here at some point the later six cylinder Mercedes engines (after W113) had an oil pan with a small drain plug which used the small copper seal.  The bolt heads are 13mm on this latest version as opposed to the 17mm head and the 14mm allen socket used on the earlier oil drain plugs.
Another interesting note is that the later version oil pans had a 1/2 liter higher oil capacity. The oil pump had a rubber sleeve attached to its pickup to accomodate the deeper pan. These higher capacity pans are easily recognized by there ribbed bottoms.
Page 18-6/1 of the BBB has a nice description with part numbers.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

The later oil pan holds more oil as you indicated but it also has a windage tray that helps to pull oil away from the spinning crank shaft. I used one on my own car plus a high volume oil pump. After more than ten years of driving the engine still has full oil pressure at hot idle.

[Benz Dr.]

I'm having a problem trying to get the metal hat to stay in place at the bottom of the filter canister. The hat doesn't appear to be distorted nor does the aluminium canister appear to be worn. Not sure how I'm going to keep it in place.

[ja17]

Hello Dan,

I use an automatic center punch and snap a few punch marks around the hat metal.  After that, the metal hat fits snugly in place.

[AudioGuy]

Does seal ring #34 007-603-018400 need to be replaced occasionally.  If so do you simply put a spanner on and turn the bolt it off?  Mine seems to leak a bit.

Thanks