stainless steel exhaust for 280SL Manual Trans

[bkksl]

I am preparing to replace exhaust system on 1968 280SL Manual Trans, RHD. I searched in this forum and see names like timevalve, borla, SLS, quicksilver.   I would appreciate opinions on good stainless steel exhaust.  I am looking for the one that sounds and appearance close to original with good fit. Thanks.

[mdsalemi]

I've had the Timevalve for 14 years. Some say it is more throaty in sound than original, but just this year someone who has been a long time Pagoda owner remarked at how wonderful it sounds, so much like OEM. Who knows. I didn't buy it for the sound. I didn't want to ever buy and install another exhaust system.

[RonB]

I replace my original with a Timevalve - really sounds nice. I would do it again - problem is they last forever.

Enjoy the NEW sound!

[ja17]

If you install the time valve system, be sure to check the clearance of the front pipe and the front frame arch. I have had to adjust the front pipe with a torch so it would not rub against the frame. You should have around 3/16" min. clearance or you can get some terrible rubbing noise from the pipe hitting the frame as the engine moves.

[Cees Klumper]

One thing to consider I think is that what some of us bought as 'Timevalve' or 'Borla' say ten years ago may well not be the exact same thing today, as companies change (either for the better or for the worse) specs, or companies even sell brands or product lines altogether to other manufacturers, change production plants, countries etc. So some of our experiences could be outdated. So where Michael's Timevalve maye have been a perfect fit, Joe's experience could be quite different.

[GGR]

I visited Timevalve in Florida last year. It is owned by a former employee who has been working for the Firm many years while they were still in New England. The company moved to Florida when this former employee, Mike,  bought the company. He was able to retain all the original jigs. He is also the one doing all the work. From what he told me and what I could see, internals of resonators and mufflers are copied from the originals, so technical properties remain the same. The only difference is that he pressure bends the pipes, so the sections are a bit smaller where pipes are bent. He can however use mandrel bent pipes if requested. In that case he orders the bent sections and uses them in his jig. He did that for me to no additional cost.

Mike is a very nice person to work with and stands by his work. He will correct mistakes if there is any. In my case, I needed a bespoke exhaust with bigger pipe diameter and different internals, and I couldn't be happier with the result.

[mdsalemi]

...So where Michael's Timevalve maye have been a perfect fit...

Whoa, I never said mine was a perfect fit; I just don't know. The restorer's mechanic installed it, and I would guess there might have been some kind of fitment to make it correct. My own experience over the years is that once the original factory installed exhaust system is replaced on a car, nothing replacement is every quite the same. I would suspect that unless you have a car with all kinds of room in the engine bay (perhaps like some American sedans of the 60's) one might have to do a little "Joe work" on any kind of system. If not, consider yourself lucky!

[ja17]

Even with the occasional glitces with the stainless systems, I think they are a good choice. I always had good experience working with Mike at Time Valve also. He is quick to take care of any issues and is easy to deal with.  I just want everyone to be aware of what to look for.  It is a lot more work to go back and fix a problem after the installation is complete. The Time Valve system is very well made. I have been installing them for over thirty years. They are designed to be a clamp-up installation, but I always weld them up, as original. Installation is critical. Its a lot of work, but with a stainless,  you only have to do it once in the cars life. A poorly installed exhaust will ruin the feel and drivability of a good car. Common exhaust problems are: leaky connections at the front pipes and manifold, front pipe too close to front right frame member in the engine compartment, improperly positioned or formed pipes, causing vibrations or rattling, sagging or leaking clamp connections, poorly positioned mufflers and resonators, causing noises, and vibrations. Often you will find that a notch is worn completely through the sheet metal of the right rear, lower quarter panel of a pagodabody, from an improperly installed rear muffler. Good clearance around the heat shields is required or you will get vibration noises. Pay attention that you have all the bits and pieces for the exhaust hangers. Here is not a good place to save money. Those expensive flat grey heat deflectors at the hangers really do help the rubber hanger rings last longer.  The rear muffler tail pipe ends should mount-up nicely horizontal to, and even with the bumper end. Make sure the rubber bumper is installed in the frame above the rear muffler at the rear, so you do not get a bump noise when you drive over a bump in the road.

[wwheeler]

I did a time valve on my W111 and while the fits are a bit different on this car, there are still all kinds of minute adjustments to get it right. I welded mine as well and took a long time to get it just right. Well worth it though. I took the extra expense to ceramic coat the entire system in satin black like the original.   

[bkksl]

Thank you very much for all insights, I will take these into consideration.

[ctaylor738]

One more insight.  Gernold at SL-Tech uses the Mercedes down-pipes when he installs stainless exhaust.

Cheers,

CT

[Mike K]

I've had experience with both the SLS and Quick Silver stainless steel exhausts. Last year I fitted an SLS stainless steel
exhaust to my LHD 280SL and a Quick Silver SS exhaust to my friend's RHD 280 SL. Both fitted perfectly with no glitches.

When I tried to source a RHD exhaust for my friend's car I found Quick Silver UK were the only supplier. Great service from them.
SLS show a RHD in stock, when I called to check it turns out that they don't stock RHD exhausts.

Given that the RHD drive is a trickier fit due to the steering box impeding the manifolds, the exhaust fit was perfect.

There's a trick to this, which involves assembling the manifolds onto the cylinder head first. Then tighten the bolts to about 80% which gives the ability to manoeuvre and get the correct length and position for the rest of the pipes to line up.

Best,
Mike

[pdc]

I purchased mine from SLS and fits very nice.

[Mike K]

Fitting the Quick Siver SS exhaust to my friend's RHD 280SL.
You can see the bend in the pipe to get around the steering box, in the foreground. On the LHD version the manifold pipes come straight down.

[m300cab]

Personally I prefer the sound of Mercedes original exhaust!
I've restored and owned about 12 SL's, my favorite sound is the original exhaust.

[GGR]

Regarding the sound, there are several issues to be taken into consideration:

Some reproductions do not duplicate exactly resonator and muffler internals;

The original exhaust can have several layers of metal constituting the external envelope, especially the muffler. Stainless exhausts usually have only one layer as external skin.

The original front section of the pipes are connected to each other at some point. This is to balance pressure on both sides of the exhaust which helps scavenging.

All three affect the sound. First and third also affect performance. Second can be addressed by coating the exhaust which is going to reduce resonance and get closer to original sound. For the two others, one need to make sure the design is true to original.

[mdsalemi]

Can anyone say for certain that the internals of a current-stock, OEM muffler system are identical to that supplied over the course of the production run, 40-50 years ago? While possible that the tooling, materials and manufacture are the same, is it likely? I'm just hazarding a guess here that after all these decades something may have changed...

[GGR]

Internals may change, but characteristics must remain similar. Exhausts are studied as complete systems in relation to engine characteristics. For example, while W109 6.3 and 280SL exhausts look similar (apart from the size of the muffler) internals are completely different.

[mdsalemi]

Internals may change...

...and that would mean that a current, OEM muffler "system" probably doesn't sound exactly the same as the muffler installed in 1969 or whenever. So all the current available mufflers might offer a different tone than original, be they OEM or aftermarket SS.

[GGR]

That may well be a possibility indeed. But it's not certitude.