Quick Rant! Well actually a long one!!

[Malc]

Well.. The old girl arrived in Southampton, yes she was damaged by the shipping people, but as usual no responsibility taken, unlike the none original jack I bought... Insurance not interested as "nothing major" had happened.

Next part of rant!

F***ing (excuse my langauge but I am pretty annoyed[!][!]) Customs and Excise have decided that the old girl is worth £4800!! and have charged me over £1000 in VAT and import duty. I couldn't get the car unless I paid up front. I have 45 days to appeal. As it was a gift by my sister in law (provided I restore her) I though I would have to pay a minimal amount, probably the value of the shipping.

I know that the car was not physically looked at by Customs, It was "valued" in Dover over 80miles away! probably somebody looking up the value in some classic car magazine or web site....

Typical though take your money and then you have to fight to get it back. bit like the Inland revenue (imcome tax)....

Rant over for now....

Malc

[Ricardo]

Malc
If it's any consolation, we practice the same BS here in the colonies....I phoned Revenue Canada 3 times before bringing my car up from New Jersey and was assured that I wouldn't have to pay duty or Goods and Service tax, just sales tax when I licenced the car....wrong...they nailed me for both at the border...$1600 cdn. Told me I could leave the car with them if I didn't like it....ahhh there now don't you feel better :evil:
Ricardo

[Benz Dr.]

You ALWAYS pay GST. I always pay GST on every part I import or purchase from local suppliers. You should never have to pay duty on a 25 year old car - that you could get back.

Daniel G Caron

[Cees Klumper]

I even had to pay something like 25% import and VAT duties when the engine that Joe Alexander and I rebuilt last year made it to Holland last August. It seemed unfair, to charge tax on something that old that had in fact been taxed in the US when it was sold originally. But those are the rules...

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[Malc]

Cees, Daniel,Richardo,
Thanks... I just drives me nuts that you end up paying VAT/GST on old stuff. Even if you buy 2nd hand stuff from a scrap yard you still end up paying it. Just love that    not
Anyway I am sending the appeal off today. I will let you know what happens as I have asked for a full explanation of how they came up with the figure.
Cheers
Malc

[Ricardo]

Absolutely right Malc.....when you consider that many of our old cars are worth new car prices and the fact that they may have changed hands a dozen times, I'm sure there are cases where the taxes collected over the years are more than the actual value of the car....but since they use that money to feed the hungry, we don't mind eh!
Ricardo

[mdsalemi]

Hey Guys,

The concept of a "VAT" or value added tax is that the goods are taxed each time "value is added" (officially) or each time the goods change hands!  Yeah, its outrageous and as our former President Clinton once said, "I feel your pain".  However these kinds of taxation systems are necessary to fund the very social programs and governments that exist in Europe.  That's not a condemnation, just reality folks!  We don't have any VAT  and we are not likely to ever have it; but then again we have all kinds of social ills that you don't have. :evil:   America, what a country...

We are not immune to import duty issues in the USA.  However, on goods that originated in the USA, there is never a duty on re-importation.  So, if I went to Stockholm, had a visit with Hans, and bought a 1957 Chevy (he tells me there are lots of old US cars in Sweden) and brought it back it would not carry a duty; duty is for the import of foreign-originating goods.  Of course I'd have to pay a sales tax to register it but that varies by state.  If the transfer were among family members there would be no sales tax either. So, since Cees' engines originated in Germany and went back to the Netherlands(aren't these both EU countries??) I can't believe they charged so much duty--or was it just tax or bad luck?

I've had some experience with HM Customs...I once tried to carry a PC (personal computer) into the UK to do some demonstrations (in 1988) and HM Customs wanted over $1,000 in duty, and they raised a "query" as they called it and wanted to hold it up for two weeks (My trip was only for 10 days with 10 demos scheduled from Brighton to Birmingham to Bristol).  I was LIVID as the goods were coming home with me on the same plane, and without them my trip was moot!  A quick call to the US Embassy (flag waving now)and a few phone calls they made to HM Customs solved the issue...Another time I had imported to the USA a piece of printing equipment; it was totally destroyed in shipping and sent back in a matter of days, but the normal duty-free classification was challenged and they assessed $5,000 duty on it...and it was not even in the country any more!!!  A few calls to my congressman and senator straightened that one out, but our Customs STILL let me know that they were right even though they were not going to collect the duty on something that was sent back!

Isn't it a great world we live in?  Best of luck, Malc on reducing your duty.  You should tell them in your appeal that you'll only spend that money on parts anyway so they will get their darn taxes soon enough, right??

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[Benz Dr.]

Kind of stupid really. There's no way an old car takes away from new car sales. Other than the taxes collected when a new car is sold there isn't much else taken for a few years as for the most part you don't or shouldn't need any major repairs on new cars for the first few years.

Older cars like ours need all kinds of things. Granted some of the parts are still not made here but the older car generates far more spin off work. Painting, body work, mechanical repairs, chrome plating, interior, engine building and repro parts. If these knot heads had any sense they'd be more eager for these kinds of imports.

Of course, knot heads and common sense don't fit into the same book let alone on the same page. My local customs guys are pretty good though, we live close by and they know us well.

Daniel G Caron

[Cees Klumper]

Michael - just some adding remarks here: the VAT we have here in Europe is the same as the US sales tax. Only that we are used to percentages up to 20% and the US sales tax is usually a lot lower.
On the subject of charging VAT on something that originated in Germany then re-imported to The Netherlands: the Dutch customs argue that no sales tax was ever levied in Europe because when something is exported, no sales tax was paid in Germany. So when it is re-imported, that is the first time VAT would be charged here. Yes, there was VAT (sales tax) charged in the US, but the European governments never received the benefits of that. So they figure they are entitled to it...

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[mdsalemi]

quote:Originally posted by cees klumper

Michael - just some adding remarks here: the VAT we have here in Europe is the same as the US sales tax. Only that we are used to percentages up to 20% and the US sales tax is usually a lot lower.
On the subject of charging VAT on something that originated in Germany then re-imported to The Netherlands: the Dutch customs argue that no sales tax was ever levied in Europe because when something is exported, no sales tax was paid in Germany. So when it is re-imported, that is the first time VAT would be charged here. Yes, there was VAT (sales tax) charged in the US, but the European governments never received the benefits of that. So they figure they are entitled to it...

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

Well, we don't have any US Sales Tax; each state has their own and some have none!  But IMPORT DUTY is another issue, and it sounds like our pal Malc has both DUTY and VAT to deal with, right?  And all of the EU has both import duties as well as VAT taxes?  My point regarding your repatriation of EU motors is that you may have had to pay some kind of sales tax, but you should not have had to pay the same kind of import duty re-importing an EU product back into the EU?  If I imported two motors from Germany, one M130 and one Chevrolet, I'd pay some kind of import duty on the M130, and none on the Chevy.  As for VAT or sales taxes, we are different here in the USA: all imports and exports are handled at the federal level, and all sales taxes at the state level.  We'd have to go quite far out of our way to find a place to pay the sales tax on an imported part!  I imported nearly a thousand dollars worth of parts from DB-Depot 2 years ago, and did not pay any taxes.  Come to think of it, no duty either!

As I said, I feel your pain...

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[hands_aus]

I am in the process of buying parts from the USA

MB parts in the USA are 3 times cheaper than parts in Australia.

Before buying my car I enquired of our Customs dept. thinking it would be cheaper to import a car from Overseas.
They don't charge import duty on a car over 30 years old, but they charge 10% GST on the total sale price including shipping plus any parts costs.

If the car is less than 30 years old they add import duty at 15% to the sale price including shipping, parts etc, then when they have a total, they then charge 10% GST on the whole price INCLUDING their own Import Duty.

Tax on top of tax!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

[Malc]

Thanks everybody
Your support is appreciated, I have sent off my appeal I will see what happens

Michael good idea! I am thinking that if I don't get anywhere I will involve my MP, assuming of course that they are not dealing with another "invasion"[:p]
Funny about bringing your computer into the UK. I once brought back some proprietary software from the company I used to work for and got stopped at customs. THey said they would keep the disks until I paid import duty which they thought was £1200. I said keep them! I'm not paying that
Why ask mister customs
Because I replied I will simply download the whole software off the server once I get back to the uk office.
You should of seen the guy's face[:0]
He gave me back the disks and told me to leave......
Malc