W111 windshield install - trim the same as W113?

[wwheeler]

I have heard over and over again that you should install the upper aluminum trim into the weatherstrip on a W113 first before installing the windshield. Is the same true on a W111?

I just removed my old aluminum W111 trim and compared to the new. Same piece and is kind of a "T" shape. The vertical part of the "T" is what goes into the weatherstrip and is only about a 1/16" wide and has a barb on the far end. Seems like that kind of a profile could go in after the windshield is in place.

If this is exactly the same as the W113 trim, then I will do it as stated on this site.

Thanks!

[66andBlue]

Wallace,
the procedure shown in the BBB (http://www.sl113.org/wiki/ChassisBody/Windshield) page 67-1/3 and Fig. 67-1/3 suggests that you also press the "ornamental frame"  into the rubber first and then install the completed windshield assembly using the rope trick.

[wwheeler]

OK and thank you for the link Alfred. So that makes sense and probably is the same trim molding as the W113. The trick is that the barb on the trim molding must be seated in the rubber groove before installation. When you install, it squeezes the gap and the barb is forever locked in place. I wonder if there is a cross sectional drawing of the rubber weatherstrip installed on the window frame with the molding in place? Not sure I ever saw one.

So one last question. When I pulled the windshield, under the weatherstriping was a beige and hard as a brick sealant. Any chance that was put there by the factory? Kind of a sloppy job, so my first guess is no. I would prefer not to put any sealant back, just curious.

[perry113]

OK and thank you for the link Alfred. So that makes sense and probably is the same trim molding as the W113. The trick is that the barb on the trim molding must be seated in the rubber groove before installation. When you install, it squeezes the gap and the barb is forever locked in place. I wonder if there is a cross sectional drawing of the rubber weatherstrip installed on the window frame with the molding in place? Not sure I ever saw one.

So one last question. When I pulled the windshield, under the weatherstriping was a beige and hard as a brick sealant. Any chance that was put there by the factory? Kind of a sloppy job, so my first guess is no. I would prefer not to put any sealant back, just curious.

The trim on both W111 W113 much like that of Porsche 356 and 911 has a locking function and has to be installed in the rubber before it is installed in the body. The W113 windshield molding is 2 pieces within 100% of the seal whereas the W111 is 1 piece across 3/4ths of the seal. As much as I know about the technology I have always paid someone who has the experience to install them. Less stress for me.

Your first guess on the sealant may be wrong. I believe it to be original. It was there in my 63 220seb. We applied a modern seam sealer in the rear window prior to final refinishing and are considering additional soft caulk prior to window installation. It would be nice to achieve a windshield and rear window that don't have the classic W111 window corner leaks that most seem to exhibit.

[wwheeler]

Great Pictures Peter! That is exactly the same sealant garbage that is on my windshield. I will take pictures before I remove it. I am thinking that it must be removed because the new seal may not have the same foot print as the old seal. And therefore cause a terrible leak. The sealant was not applied with any consistency. Very much unlike most Mercedes procedures which is why I questioned its originality. 

My car will never see water on the windshield, so I am thinking I may forgo the sealant.

Thank you for your input!

[perry113]

Great Pictures Peter! That is exactly the same sealant garbage that is on my windshield. I will take pictures before I remove it. I am thinking that it must be removed because the new seal may not have the same foot print as the old seal. And therefore cause a terrible leak. The sealant was not applied with any consistency. Very much unlike most Mercedes procedures which is why I questioned its originality. 

My car will never see water on the windshield, so I am thinking I may forgo the sealant.

Thank you for your input!

I'm sure the sealant is cracked like mine was. It's very hard and makes it difficult to remove. I had to use a heat gun. You have to be careful not to damage the headliner. In my case I had my headliner replaced to that wasn't an issue.
I feel you must reapply a seam sealer back in there before you reinstall rubber/windshield. There's a reason they put the sealer in there to begin with. The window jamb is essentially 90 degrees and the rubber is round with could cause a gap and allow water to get in.
We both should consult W111 restoration specialists who may know a few tricks to avoid and prevent a new leaky windshield.
Here are a few shots of my dash going back together.

[perry113]

I am ready to install both the front and rear glass on my 1963 220seb.
I have a glass guy who has done several early 911s but has never done a W111.

The questions I am trying to answer for him are the following:

1. I believe the lower chrome trim on both the front and rear window (chrome that lies flat and horizontal) should be installed 1st. It looks like the rubber lies above and below it. What is the process?

2. I believe the wood (2 pieces that sit on top of the dash) have to be installed yet loose before the windshield goes in. It's a pretty tight fit between the wood and the body's windshield channel. I can't think of any other way. I don't believe its possible to install dash wood that sit on top when the windshield is in.

Wheeler How did you make out?

Regards

Peter

[wwheeler]

I found lots of interesting things. Been busy but give me tonight or tomorrow and I can send some pics and stuff.

[hkollan]

Hi,

Are the rubber seals for the WS and rear window original rubber from MB?
If not get the right ones before you start. Some of the aftermarket seals are basically worthless if
you looking to get a perfect fit including the chrome trim.
Some aftermarket seals I've seen does not have the right lips for the lower chrome
trim to be "inserted" properly.

1. The lower trim goes in after the glass, and the seal lip needs to be pryed/lifted
to get the chrome "into" the rubber seal while beeing "maneuvered" into the clip holes.
It's a PITA job. Anodized alu pieces go into the rubber first, same as on the w113.

2. I am pretty sure I installed the two top of dash wood pieces with the WS in,
It's a very tight fit, but it is possible.

Regards,

Hans

[wwheeler]

I do believe it would be easier if the lower pieces went in first as the seal fits on top. Probably not mandatory, but helpful. As Hans says, please use the MB seal. It is an extremely complicated extrusion profile and will be the difference between success and failure.

I recall that both the upper dash pieces and the upper windshield frame wood bows rest on the windshield seal. Therefore, they have to go on after the windshield is in place. I will check on that further.

Concerning the caulk found below the seal. I do now believe that it is original indeed. The reason is because of the chrome A pillar trim. Long story short, I had to remove that A pillar trim piece and chrome it before I reinstall the windshield. Why? I wanted to chrome it later, but it CANNOT be removed without the seal coming out. See 1st pic (4433). There are three hidden screws behind the seal. Shown is the bottom one. I am not going to remove the windshield seal again, so it has to be done now.

Ok. When I removed the trim, there were three places below the A pillar trim coinciding with the screws that had the same caulk (color and texture) that was below the windshield seal. That trim piece has never been off. Therefore in my opinion, the seal caulk is factory Mercedes. Next picture shows caulk on the headliner. PITA to get off. Final pic is the operation to remove the caulk. What a job!    

[perry113]

That calk is really hard stuff. Because my headliner was being replaced I ended up using a propane torch to heat the stuff up carefully then scrape it out.

[wwheeler]

The funny thing about the caulk was that it was hard on the outside but softer where it was buried and never exposed. As an example, the caulk shattered into glass like pieces just where it met the seal and near the headliner. Below that where it was touching the steel frame, it was somewhat cheesy. It was also cheesy under the chrome A pillar. Needless to say, they have far better materials now. 

I am going to cut the old seal into a 2" width and set it on the frame. Then I will know exactly where the caulk needs to go. No more or no less.

[perry113]

Put the back window in today.
Piece of cake

[wwheeler]

Peter,

Do tell! Was the chrome surround trim all attached with the plastic keepers? I am assuming the window glass was held in by the seal. Does the seal install similarly to the front? And most important, did you use sealer? And if so, what kind and brand did you use?

Thanks for the info.

[star63]

I wonder if there is a cross sectional drawing of the rubber weatherstrip installed on the window frame with the molding in place? Not sure I ever saw one.

SLS sent me this when I asked about it a couple of years ago...

[wwheeler]

Petri,

Thank you for sending that. I guess I never realized before, but the windshield trim on the W113 is different than the W111. On the W113, the bright trim fitted around the windshield that is embedded in the seal is the same all the way. The W111 has that embedded bright trim only on the upper and sides. The lower piece is separate and is mounted to the cowl via plastic snaps. Therefore the W111 seal is quite a bit different on the bottom section.

Seems obvious now, but just never noticed.