Soft tops and frame ddifferences

[rwmastel]

There is a soft top in the for sale section right now that says it was on a 280SL.  My soft top frame is an early kind with the chrome trim over the back window.  Are the frames different?  Would this top work on my frame?

[pdc]

Hi Rod,

Sound like you need a frame with wooden bar, if you take any other frame you can't use the chrome strip anymore because it's nailed in the wood. If I have it right there is 3 different frames, one in aluminum , one with wooden bar and one in metal for the 280's. You should be able to use later frames on 230's and vice verse however loosing the authenticity.
 
My car originally was supplied without soft top and had a frame mounted later on with wooden bar. That allowed me to have a chrome strip on my late 250. Actually the late 250's have originally the 280 frame and no chrome strip. I just like it more so went for this option.

If you change the soft top, keep in mind that you need to order a different one than for the non wooden bar version. Some don't and have to cut the canvas to adjust.  btw the wooden bar is normally upholstered, I just decided to varnish it because I like it more .

Hope this helps you further.

Pascal

[mbzse]

.../...Are the frames different?  Would this top work on my frame?

There is quite a lot of information about soft tops and the soft top frame in our Tech manual.
In principle, all frames fit onto all Pagoda's. But lots of details differ between the early and late types of frame. Including the pattern for how the soft top fabric is cut/sewn.


.

[450sl]

this is the one

https://www.cabrio.de/khm/en/softtops-models-prices/mercedes-benz/230-250-280-sl-113/softtop-230-250-280-sl-113-including-tension-belts-original-material-detail

[pdc]

Since I had a frame with wooden bar I wanted to be sure I ordered the correct top from KHM. They replied me this :

We could supply the top of the late model (without chrome rail) with special adaption to be used with the wooden rear bar (+EUR 80,-), but also the top for the early car for re-using the chrome rail (no surcharge).

I also understood from reading Andy burns posts that he had a soft top ordered (not sure is was from KHM and he also had a wooden bar frame), but he needed to cut here and there to make it fit. It wasn't clear if he put the chrome trim back by driving the nails through the canvas. He wrote up plenty of details very nicely documented with pictures.

I think that KHM adjust the canvas to enhance or seal it where the nails from the chrome strip need to go through the canvas and charge 80 € more for this adjustment.

Probably you could use that canvas from 450SL if you're good to trim it and to be safe not put the chrome trim back.

[Garry]

I have fitted one of the KHM tops to my 65 230SL and they supplied me some extra pieces so I could make a tool bag with the correct material.

They are good tops and KHM are very accommodating and I highly recommend them.

Garry

[rwmastel]

It sounds like I was not clear in my original post.

I already have a frame with the wooden bow on the car.  I already have a soft top with a chrome strip on that frame, but it REALLY needs replaced.

To save some cash, I was asking, "If I buy a used top removed from a 280SL, should it fit my early frame with wooden bow and chrome strip?"

There were some confusing replies, but I got enough info to understand that I should just buy a new top made for that early frame.

Thanks everyone.

[114015]

Hey Rodd,

Long time - no hear.

Good to see you back.

It sounds like I was not clear in my original post.
I already have a frame with the wooden bow on the car.  I already have a soft top with a chrome strip on that frame, but it REALLY needs replaced.
To save some cash, I was asking, "If I buy a used top removed from a 280SL, should it fit my early frame with wooden bow and chrome strip?"
There were some confusing replies, but I got enough info to understand that I should just buy a new top made for that early frame.
Thanks everyone.

Well, basically your car with an 018000 something serial number shouldn't have the wooden bow softtop. That's the early one (A113 770 0102) that was used only on early cars up to serial 007640.

Well, you have it now, what to do?

Basically, the softtop canvas(ses) are more or less the same, but only more or less.
I got one from GAHH, they said it should fit my wooden bow softtop frame... Well, it did (it does) but it is a very tight fit. These canvas(ses) fit much better the later SL frames.

Basically, you will not get a sophisticated answer unless you place the used softtop canvas from the seller ontop of your frame and see what it looks like. Thus, it is somehow a risk. A good autotops shop can do it, I am sure (I had an expert on hand myself), but it may be a tight fit.

The chrome strip can be applied anyway in each case, that's not the limiting factor. The limiting factor is the general fit.

I have got a used softtop canvas for the early type in blue. It's okay but the rear window is stained and needs to be replaced.
For you it will be free - for the cost of (internation) shipment.

Good luck

Achim
(with wooden bow soft top)

[waltklatt]

Rodd,
I had originally installed a new top fabric to my 220SL.  Since later I got a 1963 SL top frame and it had the wood bow.
I took the bow off from the 63 frame and removed only the same bow(steel) from the 67 frame by removing the brass plug rivets.
The fabric that wraps the steel bar has to be peeled off(glued) and left in place.
Put the wood bow in without any problems and made new brass plug rivets and reglued the fabric to the wood portion.
Then found an original chrome strip and nailed it to the bow.
All works well with any top fabric.
No need to replace the top, if yours is still good and "unshrunk".

Walter
67 220SL diesel

[rwmastel]

Achim,

Hello and thanks, it is nice to be back!  My 230SL was ordered with hard top only, so while in Italy some owner found a soft top frame (this early style) and had it installed and covered it with some simple black Italian material.  The very first local soft top place I brought it to years ago asked if the car was from Italy because it had the same material as Fiat or Alfa Romeo used.  The frame is in good shape except for those two coil springs on the sides.  They need replaced.

Alfred is at Joe's this week and we had a discussion about soft tops and frames.  He recommends a particular company in Los Angeles that makes a top just with slight adjustments just for the old aluminum frame with wood bow.  He showed me on a car with this frame at Joe's how the seam must fit right over the bow so the chrome strip covers the seam.  This company also provides some other nice touches he appreciates.

I guess it depends if I want to buy new material and a new chrome strip and have it look great (and make the rest of the car look bad!), or if I want to go save money and buy someone's used top even if it wasn't specifically made for an early aluminum frame with wood bow and make it fit as best as can be.

I think the blue would look good with the Arabian Gray, if I had a blue interior.  I think it would not go well with the gray body, tan interior, and white/gray hub caps.  But thank you for the kind offer!

Walter,

You never cease to amaze me!  You're quite an ambitious person.  Thank goodness you have the skills to accomplish these things!  As I wrote to Achim, I think my frame is basically good.  I just need good material.