Author Topic: Original Tire Sizes revisited  (Read 11001 times)

kampala

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Beach Cities
  • Posts: 1246
Original Tire Sizes revisited
« on: August 09, 2015, 04:23:23 »
Tire topics have been written about over and over --- however, most thinking about modern tires is based on understanding the original tires.  Hence this post about questioning our understanding.

Recently there has been quite a bit of chatter regarding original tire sizes and the sizes of tires available today.

When Rolf-Dieter, on another thread, mentioned that the 195-75-14’s looked really large compared to what he had on his car it got me thinking as I felt the same comparing my 280sl to my 250sl.  The 280sl has 195-75-14’s and the 250sl has the Coker Phoenix’s.  The 280sl tires look much larger then the repro Phoenix tires.   Many have mentioned that the 195-75-14’s are closest to original.  I’m not so sure anymore and am thinking otherwise.  Would appreciate your opinions.

I am questioning the thinking that Pagodas originally had tires with an aspect ratio of 78 & 80 (per our tech manual) or to put it simply, had a diameter of 25 ½ to 25 ¾ inches.    On a 14-inch wheel an aspect ratio of 78 or 80, with a 185 tire, equates to a diameter of about 25 ½ to 25 ¾ inches respectively.  This is very close to the 195-75-14, a commonly referred to equivalent in our forum and tech manual.

The reproduction Coker Phoenix tires are listed by the manufacturer as having a 25-inch diameter, ½ to ¾ inch smaller than a 78 or 80 aspect ratio for these tires and smaller than the 195-75-14’s.   A 25-inch diameter on a 14 inch 185 tire equals to an aspect ratio of about 75. 

I have Coker Phoenix tires on my 250sl and can confirm that the diameter measures just below 25 inches (they have about 2,000 miles on them).   

In addition, my 1971 280sl came with an unused original Continental Spare and today I measured this original unused tire that was delivered with the car when new.  If it was driven on, it must have been very few miles as the tire still retains the striping down the center of the tread.   

This original Continental has a diameter of 24 ¾ inches.  It has a circumference of 77 5/8 inches (which also converts to a diameter of about 24 ¾ inches).  See photos.

(Sorry, to keep things easier to read, I’ve not included metric equivalents, apologies)

So, based on measuring an original Continental and a Coker Phoenix, the diameter of these two tires suggests that they are closest to modern tires that are 185-75-14 and not 185-80-14 nor 195-75-14 as commonly perceived. 

Put simply:  the Original Continental and Coker Phoenix are about 24 ¾  - 25 inch diameter while the 185-80-14’s and 195-75-14 are 25 ½  – 25 ¾ .  About ½ - 1 inch larger in diameter.    This may not sound like much, but it’s clearly noticeable on the cars.

I would also comment that the TomTom GPS miles-per-hour match spot-on or within one mile per hour on the 250sl with the Coker Phoenix at all speed ranges.

Would appreciate others comments as I would not want to steer our members wrongly if my deductions are not valid. 

Thoughts would be appreciated.
250sl - later - manual
280sl - 1971 - Auto - LSD

kampala

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Beach Cities
  • Posts: 1246
Re: Original Tire Sizes revisited
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2015, 04:24:11 »
additional photos

250sl - later - manual
280sl - 1971 - Auto - LSD

stickandrudderman

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • United Kingdom, England, Richmond
  • Posts: 2924
    • http://www.colinferns.com
Re: Original Tire Sizes revisited
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2015, 08:44:01 »
For absolute accuracy you should rely solely on the odometer for reference as they are indeed accurate where the speedo is not.
This was revealed to me by my friend who helped me develop the speedo conversion for the Getrag 5 speed.

Paul & Dolly

  • Full Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • United Kingdom, Wales, CARDIFF
  • Posts: 699
  • i Car
Re: Original Tire Sizes revisited
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2015, 09:59:59 »
I have Michelin MXV-P 185 R14 fitted,
The speedometer is accurate wrt Sat Nav, the odometer I have not checked.

I measured the spare..
all my measurements are in cm and the inch conversion is shown (xx")

Diameter 64 cm (25.2")  Circumferance  203.4 cm (80.1")
It was difficult to accurately measure the Diameter, but I am confident of the circumference, and converting
that to Diameter gives a figure of 64.74 cm (25.49")

I then looked up the tyre data on Longstone Tyres - a specialist tyre supplier
and it said the following :

Diameter 65 cm (25.6")

under alternatives it said...
195/75R14 is very similar in diameter to a 185x14 tyre. 185x 14 tyres were fitted to a wide range of Mercedes cars. Mercedes 230, Mercedes 250, Mercedes 280, Mercedes 300 SEL) all fitted 185x14 tyres. Without doubt the best handling tyre in the size 185x14 would be the Michelin 185HR14 MXV-P. However at Longstone Classic Tyres we have often found that a lot of these cars would like to fit tyres that have a thin white band. The 195/75R14 Hankook is an ideal tyre under these circumstances.

The Hankook is shown as imported from USA and Diameter 64.5 cm (25.4")

I do not know if this clarifies or muddies what has gone before !
but it was a cloudy morning

Keep measuring

Paul

NB The last picture is one of the Longstone Tyre Fitters !

« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 10:31:31 by paladin »
Paul (located in Cardiff - Wales - UK)
1967 Early 250 SL (Auto) White
Mitsubishi i Car
Toyota RAV 4  Hybrid AWD
1936 Alvis Firebird (Gone............)

hauser

  • Guest
Re: Original Tire Sizes revisited
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2015, 10:07:55 »
For some reason I always thought that stock diameter was 25.5".  This is what the Michelin MXV-P measured at from Coker.  My 205/65/15 Michelin Primacy tires measure out at 25.5 according to Tire rack's stats provided by the manufacturer. ??? 

Peter van Es

  • Honorary Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • Netherlands, North Holland, Nederhorst Den Berg
  • Posts: 4074
Re: Original Tire Sizes revisited
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2015, 07:05:10 »
The Vredestein Sprint Classic is available as 185 R 14 and made my odometer / speedometer completely accurate again. I have a rally tripmeter, accurate to 10 meters that is calibrated (and recalibrated for every rally, to account for tire pressure). My stock odometer and my tripmeter differ less than a couple of 100 meters on 400-500 km's. My speedometer and my GPS also agree on the speed within 1km/hour

Many people are very happy with the Vredestein's.

Peter 
1970 280SL. System Admin of the site. Please do not mail or PM me questions on Pagoda's... I'm not likely to know the answer.  Please post on the forum instead!

zoegrlh

  • Full Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • USA, VA, Williamsburg
  • Posts: 808
  • Beauty from top BCW
Re: Original Tire Sizes revisited
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2015, 22:02:21 »
Right on Peter.  I did a very in depth research on current tires on the market to find the tire closest to the originial Phoenix tires.  I found that Vredestein were the closest to original specs.  Read my thead on a few years ago on tires.
Bob
Robert Hyatt
Williamsburg, VA.

W113, 1970 280SL, Red leather 242 on Silver Gray Met. 180, 4-speed stick, Euro spec, restored
R172 2012 SLK350, Black Premium leather 801 on Mars Red 590, 7-speed auto
W211, 2007 E320 Bluetec, Cashmere MB Tex 144 on Arctic White 650, 7 speed auto

Rolf-Dieter ✝︎

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • Canada, ON, London
  • Posts: 3683
    • Best Pagoda Site second to none!
Re: Original Tire Sizes revisited
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2015, 23:24:31 »
Bob, are the Vredestein white wall tires?
DD 2011 SL 63 AMG and my 69 Pagoda 280 SL

Peter van Es

  • Honorary Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • Netherlands, North Holland, Nederhorst Den Berg
  • Posts: 4074
Re: Original Tire Sizes revisited
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2015, 13:04:35 »
Rolf-Dieter, no they are not. However, they have a very pleasing, classic looking thread pattern.

Peter
1970 280SL. System Admin of the site. Please do not mail or PM me questions on Pagoda's... I'm not likely to know the answer.  Please post on the forum instead!

Rolf-Dieter ✝︎

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • Canada, ON, London
  • Posts: 3683
    • Best Pagoda Site second to none!
Re: Original Tire Sizes revisited
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2015, 13:21:05 »
Thanks Peter!
DD 2011 SL 63 AMG and my 69 Pagoda 280 SL

hauser

  • Guest
Re: Original Tire Sizes revisited
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2015, 13:54:14 »
Rolf,  if you really like the WW look you can have them applied in almost any width to the tire of your choice.  One of our members Tom Rose had it done to a set of Vredesteins.

Jowe

  • Full Member
  • Silver
  • ****
  • Sweden, Västra Götaland, Gothenburg
  • Posts: 280
Re: Original Tire Sizes revisited
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2015, 16:34:35 »
You can also chose to add white wall afterwards. My 230 was fitted with this when I bought it. Did actually not notice that the white sides were "fake" until I was about to check the tyre pressure. Search on "white wall trims" or "weisswandringe" on eBay, for instace.
Johan
04/1964 230SL, European, manual 4-sp, power steering, 050/050 white, black leather, Blaupunkt (SOLD)

hauser

  • Guest
Re: Original Tire Sizes revisited
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2015, 19:08:41 »
Here's a photo of my car just before it was picked up by Intercity for it's trip to SLTech.  The tires are modern Michelin with a 3/4" WW applied.  They are absolutely the whitest WW I have ever had.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 19:20:32 by hauser »