Please assess my newbie 230SL inspection (I ran away)

[Deschodt]

I was on the forum several years ago when looking, but never found the right car then (wish I had, given today's prices). The bug never left me so I started looking again and went to see a manual 64 230SL about an hour from my house.... I did not even test drive it - don't like to waste people's time - tell me if I messed up..

The bad:
- The passenger side front frame rail had a couple of holes. Small but... you know, rust =iceberg...
- The metal behind the front bumper looked also like it was rusty with the bumper a little pushed in.
- The nose grill surround was imperfect (I hear those grills are $), the mercedes badge missing altogether on the hood...
- The floors both had rust damage, fist sized area of peeling undercoating meshed with rust flaking off, I did not poke too hard but it flexed a lot.
- Rear end looked surprisingly clean but there was thick goop in the trunk that I could not look under, and that did not look factory. thick layer like brushed sealer....
- The paint overall needed to be redone. Some flakes, some small bubbles around the wheel well lips but not bad.
- The hardtop had rust bubbles all around the lower edge
- Inside the red interior looked good but I am not sure it was MBtex
- Big modern radio obliterating the dash gap for the factory radio
- Engine compartment looked dirty and a little rusty: no firewall pad, and.... no VIN plate !!! I could see the rivet holes where the palte normally is, if I remember right (should have one right?)... The secondary chassis plate was on the driver side fender, which corroborated the model/tranny and some chassis #s, but shouldn't there have been a VIN plate on the firewall

The good?
- the folding top was nice
- It has the third sideways seat
- Enough oily bits under the engine to prevent more rust ;-)

Seller wanted $45K. As I said I did not even drive the car at that point. I figured easily 10K in rust, $10 in paint, 5 in parts, and 1.5 years waiting to drive the car (while the fuel distributor seizes) *IF* I found a shop that was competent and had time... Ha !!!

Did I screw up ? Are those cars THAT expensive now that 45 is right for a beatup 230 ? If so, please educate me so I can stop wasting my time.... I'm OK paying more for something that is not perfect but at least does not need major surgery (And has a vin plate)

Greg.

------------------------
72 911T, 74 Alfa GTV

[jameshoward]

You did exactly the right thing.

It sounds like a money pit. By the best you can afford even if you need to stretch yourself a lot. It'll be a saving in the long run.

This one sounds like a rust bucket.

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

Greg,

You made the right move to walk away. You are also right when you mention you should have purchased a few years back. I purchased mine in early 2013 and basically did what James recommends "purchase the best you can afford" you like to enjoy it once you find one unless you get enjoyment out of restoring something (that can be frustrating finding the right original parts).

Good luck in your search, do take advantage of our members here, when you find one you may find a member that will go to inspect it for you if you should find one to far from you.

You may like to check out this 250sl toone here at Bud's

Check this ----> http://www.budsbenz.com/carsforsale

[Deschodt]

 Thanks guys, I feel better about it with your confirmation! I guess I can learn new tricks ! ( I once bought an old Porsche with three different Vin numbers long-distance )

The bud's one you mentioned looks right up my alley, but if I learned something today, and that time with the 3 vins, it is that I need to put my eyeballs on the car every time!!!!

[Kayvan]

Take a look at whats happening with ratty Porsche early 911, 912s, and even 356s...not to mention 190 SLs

They all sound like the car you saw...

They are all over $50K if not 75K; and these Porsches are glorified Bettles (exception of 911 S, not 912) and Porsche collectors are panicking missing the boat!

The price of entry is what it is; buyers are making up savings elsewhere (either doing own work; have inside source of parts or even free storage) and it makes sense...

The days of casually finding gems; then chatting with a friendly restoration shop and picking up your perfect SL are over.

It takes hard work and pulling trigger is hardest!

[jameshoward]

But it's worth noting on pricing that prices are clearly softening at the top of the market eg 300SLs, the rarer 911s and high end Italian cars (there's always the exception, before someone else points it out, of the $24M Ferrari, but the high-end prices are very definitely falling off at the top end).

Porsche 911 prices are daft. Even 5-6 year old 997s. In my view these cars are in a bubble right now that won't last. If economies soften, as seems to be a prevailing view, this area could see prices fall considerably. That said, I'd love a 993; I just can't justify those cars for that sort of money. It's a mismatch in my view. And large price corrections in the classic car market have occurred within the past 10-15 years, let's not forget.

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

Greg,

You may or may not have had a look at the Hagerty Insurance web site "evaluation section"

It gives you good details on pricing and expected condition for a #1 to #4 car. If not then I include the link for you below. Once the link opens scroll down to the pricing graph and click on the individual #1 to #4 categories to read up on conditions. The link is for an 280sl to see results for a 230sl or 250sl return to the Main/Home page and provide details.

Link ---->  https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationtools/1969-Mercedes~Benz-280SL

Edit, changed the link to the US link

[Benz Dr.]

Prices will remain firm as long as interest rates are low.

 Right now, there are too many cars chasing too few dollars in the 15 to 25 K market. Warmed up turds that generally cost more to restore than you can get at auction. It should be noted that about 1/3 of the cars sold at Scottsdale were bought back by their owners because of no reserve. You never see those guys on TV either - just the ones who ended up as '' well bought. ''

[Pinder]

45k for a rust bucket sounds like a bad deal.  for that I would expect a running car and complete car.

[66andBlue]

Would you run away from that one? Only $8950 but "Will require full restoration" !    
http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1965-mercedes-benz-230sl-c-5059.htm

[perry113]

Quote "
Seller wanted $45K. As I said I did not even drive the car at that point. I figured easily 10K in rust, $10 in paint, 5 in parts, and 1.5 years waiting to drive the car (while the fuel distributor seizes) *IF* I found a shop that was competent and had time... Ha !!! "

Figure 15-18K in sheet metal parts 20-25K in welding and rust 15-20k in paint 25k in mechanicals 7k in interior 5k in chrome and fudge factor an additional 25K. Gotta factor in the last 10% of the restoration which is the hardest part. Yeah you can spend 100K or much more on a rust bucket basket case especially if your subletting all of the work and not doing it yourself. And if you ask Gernold at SL Tech he might say my estimate figures are light.

I am not trying to scare you. Just trying to help you consider a better car to start with. Seems like cars that classify as condition 4-5 cars are selling in the 25-35k range and these cars are 20 footer that may start and drive but have a lot patches and bondo under shiny paint. These cars really need just about everything.

Best to hire someone to perform a PPI on the candidates you are considering and plan on spending more up front to get a better car. The harder you look the better chance you have on finding an undervalued one.

I agree with someone recommending looking at the 250SL Bud's has. The range of 40-55k range is where you need to be to get something decent that I could consider undervalued relatively speaking.

Let us know how you make out.

Regards

Peter

[Bonnyboy]

Peter, sounds like it road trip time.   You have to come up to Vancouver Canada - there are still deals up here and our Canadian dollar is low so the $CAN45k is only $US32k really!  Lots of Pagodas too.

Guys are quietly snatching up the old German and British stuff and taking them back home by the truckload.   Check out our craigslist etc.

No we don't live in igloos and today was beautiful top down weather.  Kids and wife were busy so went for a motorcycle ride today instead of the Pagoda as the weather was amazing.  Tomorrow is even better.

   

[Panzer82]

Crazy price for such a 230SL. Believe it or not, there are still reasonable sellers out there.

I would suggest joining your local MBCA section and getting to know people. It doesn't happen overnight, but as you get more involved, you will learn about cars in your area, especially if you put the word out that you're looking for a decent Pagoda SL.

I still find driver quality cars (WITHOUT RUST!) in the $30,000s. Rust is a deal killer for me, period, but if your patient, there are cars out there.

The best way to find one is through a personal connection or referral... there are tons of people combing craigslist, nationally, everyday... the chances you're going to be the one to get to a craigslist car first are slim, and many of them have huge price tags. You want to find and meet the guy that has owned his car since the 70s or 80s and is ready to move on. Come to a reasonable price that you can both agree on and you're set.

Hopefully he'll understand why his average condition, but still nice, 230SL isn't worth $85,000 like the one that he saw sell at that fancy, big time auction in California... that it's probably really 'worth' less than half of that. And remember... they almost all need subframe mounts, tires, and new suspension bushings... not to mention the 'while we've got it apart' stuff. Don't be surprised if you put $3,000 - $5,000 immediately.

Patience is a virtue when buying these cars... they made 45,000+ Pagodas, no need to be in a hurry.