Factory Sunroof Car - Busted

[ctaylor738]

Check it out:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/252297854204?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_udlo%3D%26_udhi%3D%26_ftrt%3D901%26_ftrv%3D1%26_sabdlo%3D%26_sabdhi%3D%26_samilow%3D%26_samihi%3D%26_sadis%3D15%26_stpos%3D22044%26_sop%3D12%26_dmd%3D1%26_ipg%3D50%26_nkw%3D252297854204%26_rdc%3D1

There is a picture of the data card with "411" on it.

[Benz Dr.]

I know this car. Seller told me yesterday that it didn't meet reserve at considerably more than 99 K.

[waltklatt]

Is that really the sunroof for the W113?
looks like it has the W123 wind deflector flap
And no drain holes on the flanks of the hardtop?
Walter

[hauser]

Walter, I think you are right about the sunroof.  Passarelli was doing this type of conversion when he had his shop in Arizona.

[68_white]

The highest bid on this car in the previous auction was $172k. Still did not meet reserve. If the sunroof is not original what should the value be?

[ctaylor738]

"This listing was ended by the seller because there was an error in the listing."

Yeah, I'd say so.  Looks like the 411 on the data card was bogus.

I guess we're still believing sunroofs were not installed by the factory.

No place to hide on stuff like this.

[Tyler S]

That's not all that was doctored. The body color, softtop color, and interior codes were changed as well!!
All the more reason to do your homework when buying one of these or any car for that matter.

[68_white]

This is the shop that restored this car. Has anyone heard of them? They are located in the Dominican Republic.

http://performancevintageclassicos.com/

[kampala]

Chuck,

There's got to be a lot more to this story.    Who dug up the real data card?   Etc. etc. you gotta tell.

[tapiap]

Hello All,
I want to Thank Alfred for alerting me of this string. The car was restored and sold by our company, Performance & Vintage Classicos. We purchased the car in 2011, and was part of an inventory of 17 113s in our plant. The car came with lots of original documentation, manuals, including the 'datacard' that stated it was 'black' with a sunroof car. While we usually request datacards from the Classic Center on all of our cars, we neglected to do so on this one, because we thought we had the correct datacard information. It was not until the car was on eBay, that we learned of the incorrect datacard, and we proceeded to take it off eBay, even thought it had not met reserve.

While the car was purchased in 2011, we did not rush to restore it due to many other projects on schedule, and because it did not come with the presumed original sunroof top. We looked into the issue of the correct manual sunroof, and after much research and consulting with Passarelli, we proceeded to make the sunroof adaptation with a manual 123 sunroof.
The sunroof does have the drain holes on the flanks of the hardtop -- It is done in a manner that is somewhat concealed by the chrome molding. While this whole issue was a shock to discover in the 9th inning, in retrospect, we are glad we thought the car was a sunroof car, as we would have otherwise never ventured to perform the sunroof adaptation.  Based on requests by several clients, we will continue to deliver this sunroof option.

FYI -- the car did sell shortly after taking it off the auction. We had several interested parties in the car, even after they were made aware of the datacard incorrectness.

Last, but not least, I want to emphasize that 'integrity' is of foremost importance to us. We regret when things like this happen. We receive projects from clients from many countries abroad, and delivering 'quality' and 'transparency' take precedence over making a quick buck.

Should you want more info, you may reach me at pablo@tapiagroup.com, as I do not connect to the forum often.

Best regards,

Pablo

[68_white]

Would you be able to share the sold price of the vehicle?

[66andBlue]

Hello Pablo,
thanks for sharing this interesting sunroof story with us.
Would be nice if you could provide a few more details about your sunroof modifications, with photos perhaps?
If not then you have to bring one along to the next PUB for close inspection!   
Hope to see again wherever the next PUB will be.

[tapiap]

I can share pictures at some point down the road -- Next trip to our plant, I will gather some key pictures and upload them to the group -- and yes, I may indeed bring one down to the next PUB. We would welcome the critic of the group.

The car sold slightly for north of where the bidding ended ...

Pablo

[alpina]

Was the 'Body and Paint Number Plate' changed on this car? wouldn’t that show the original paint colour.

[Benz Dr.]

OK, maybe. When is the last time you saw anyone, dealer or not, answer to anything we said about a car for sale that was viewed by this forum? And, further to that, when was the last time anyone selling a car came to this site and admitted to or answered to any fault whatsoever? I find it hard to conceive that anyone who admits to fault would also be guilty of fraud. The man said he made a mistake. Isn't that enough?

  Many of us may have a very good understanding of our cars and all of the minute details they comprise, and to that end, are able to restore one to near factory specs not taking into account their own labor costs. But could we do all of that and actually run a shop while at the same time making a reasonable profit on every car that rolls out the door? I suspect that few, if any of us, could do it even if we paid next nothing for the car up front. Body work, painting, mechanical, parts, chrome plating, interior, labor, cost of maintaining a shop, and a host of unseen costs can eat your lunch before you even get to smell it.

 I have never seen a perfectly restored car - only clean original examples.

[pj]

Heh, Chuck,
did I miss something in this thread? Where did you get the image of the data card, the one that's different from what Paolo posted on the eBay photo album?

Cheers,
PJ

[ctaylor738]

Like a good journalist, I always protect my sources.

I didn't go this route in this case, but you can generally get a data card (or the information on one) from the Classic Center by providing the VIN and stating that you are considering purchasing the car.  Advertising a car on makes it fair game for this.

[pj]

Heh, Chuck,
I got a copy of my data card from Mercedes Centre, too. Lucky for me, it matched the one that came to me from the P.O.
But I have to admit, I thought you had to give Tom or somebody at the Mercedes Centre some hint or proof that you are asking only for a car you personally own.
Is it true that we can ask for the data cards of other owners? If so, then why don't we ask officially on behalf of this website/organization for the data cards of all 113s? Then we could really study what options left the factory. (Not to mention verifying the occasional case of a card being altered.)
Sure it's a lot of work, but it would be worth it. I would volunteer to help with that analysis.

[ranchomerced]

We have only done 2 sunroof cars total in the past decade and we eliminated the wind deflectors because it was not original.  On both cars we did used a W123 wagon Webasto roof cut down.  It is a very difficult conversion; not really worth the effort.   Ours in indistinguishable from the handful of original Webasto roofs.  Mark Passarelli