Author Topic: My German 'Ground up restored' 280sl...  (Read 5473 times)

Erics

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My German 'Ground up restored' 280sl...
« on: May 20, 2016, 11:23:01 »
About 2 years ago, i started a thread called 'help me find a pagoda'..

Lasted a long while and contained many financial considerations.

I flew across Europe many times.

After intense filtering and seeing / driving a dozen cars, i eventually found the one.

A ground up restored 904 blue, 1968 280sl.

I bought it privately in Germany from a guy who had two exactly identical cars.

It was rebuilt by Brian Dornmueller who supposedly does pagodas for the best known names out there.

Thankfully, i paid 'private' money rather than 'posh dealer' money.

The car drove really well, with a strong engine. All correct details in place (notches, wing welds etc).

Then started the problems:
Alternator fried up thanks to the Germans putting wiring too close to exhaust pipes.
Messed up the electrical system big time.
Then had two scary fuel leaks.
Hardtop joints were cut too short letting water get into the car.
Lots and lots of tiny but really annoying details.

I got the car with 150km on the clock since total rebuilt. But had to spend soon after about £5k to get a whole lot of minor details right.

I did some upgrades: changed steering wheel and gearknob to white, added yellow factory marks, realigned dashboard woods, had a thorough detailing (dark blue paint is so soft!) etc...

Anyway, i thought i was out of the woods bar a few details:
Hardtop mega noisy (wind) above 50-60 kmh.
Slight water ingress near top of windscreen when hardtop on (may be linked to the above).
Very strong petrol smell in the cabin after filling up.
Dash rattles.
Softtop compartment rattles.
Indicators not holding strongly the position on steering column.
Engine running v rich.

So i made a list of a dozen items before bringing it to my trusty mechanic..

This is were the bad stuff begins...

I was driving spiritedly when suddenly a huge white cloud of smoke appeared behind me. I immediately parked the car and stopped the engine. I thought the engine may have gone pop.

Recovery truck came, my mechanic came and he eventually diagnosed that gearbox fluid made its way to the induction of the engine. Burning gearbox fluid made that huge white smoke.

We also found that the coolant tank had micro cracks and as such was could not sustain full pressure. They are invisible holes that slightly bubble at temperature. Dismantled it and sent to radiator specialist...

Now fellow forum members, if you have any idea as to:
1/ tighten down the front part of the hardtop? To reduce wind noise at speed?
2/ how can gearbox fluid make its way to the induction?
3/ how can i fix recurring fuel smell into the cabin despite fixing previous leaks?
4/ how can i fix metallic sounding dashboard rattles?

Finally, the car is running on 195 Falken tyres. I do not think that they are totally right. What should i get. 1968 Euro pagoda?

Thanks in advance!


« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 11:34:01 by Erics »

Jowe

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Re: My German 'Ground up restored' 280sl...
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2016, 18:31:28 »
What a story... I hope you will find out all the issues. A ground-up restoration should made things perfect of course. Compared with all the other Pagodas you test drove, is your's much worse than them regarding wind noise, rattle etc?

Regarding tyres, I would recommend Vredestein Sprint Classic 185/14 which are common available in Europe.
Johan
04/1964 230SL, European, manual 4-sp, power steering, 050/050 white, black leather, Blaupunkt (SOLD)

Erics

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Re: My German 'Ground up restored' 280sl...
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2016, 19:10:06 »
What a story... I hope you will find out all the issues. A ground-up restoration should made things perfect of course. Compared with all the other Pagodas you test drove, is your's much worse than them regarding wind noise, rattle etc?

Regarding tyres, I would recommend Vredestein Sprint Classic 185/14 which are common available in Europe.

Hi Jowe, thank you for the kind response.

I agree, you would have thought that with a ground up restoration the car would have been like new.... Well, it sort of is.

The thing is, when these guys finished the job, they probably wanted the car out of their workshop asap. When in fact, there should be thorough testing and a teething process. I feel like i have been doing that for them: ironing out small but very annoying problems.

Anyone out there considering a total restoration process should remember that: make sure there is a very thorough post build process. It will save you a lot of headache down the line.

Re the hardtop, yes, i think it's louder than other cars. I am confident that the rear part it correctly attached. I think it's the front end that could be clamped down much more titghly. Anyone has an idea?

I will look where i can find vrederstein classics in the uk.

Shvegel

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Re: My German 'Ground up restored' 280sl...
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2016, 21:01:51 »
I assume your car is an Automatic?  If so there is an engine vacuum connection to the engine and if a small rubber diaphragm is ruptured it will suck the automatic transmission fluid into the engine.

Erics

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Re: My German 'Ground up restored' 280sl...
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2016, 23:23:44 »
I assume your car is an Automatic?  If so there is an engine vacuum connection to the engine and if a small rubber diaphragm is ruptured it will suck the automatic transmission fluid into the engine.

Bingo!

Yes it is automatic.

Mechanic called today. He said it was exactly that...

Is it a common fault? Is it dangerous for the engine?

Big job to repair?

Jonny B

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Re: My German 'Ground up restored' 280sl...
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2016, 03:11:41 »
The auto transmission issue with the diaphragm has been discussed on the forum. Use the main search function and you should be able to get some background.

Here is one thread -  http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=13727.0
Another - http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=24197.msg173463#msg173463

Try "transmission diaphragm" as the search string from the main search page (the link that is fourth in line after "Home", not the search that is under the Pagoda emblem at the top right of the page)

For the fuel smell. (also discussed on the forum) a common issue are the two small connections at the tank filler neck. These are on either side of the fuel filler pipe and are accessible by taking the cover off the filler neck in the trunk/boot. They are for venting the tank and can be plugged, the hoses may be cracked or not connected, etc.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2016, 03:15:48 by Jonny B »
Jonny B
1967 250 SL Auto, DB 568
1970 280 SL Auto, DB 904
1966 Morris Mini Minor

stickandrudderman

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Re: My German 'Ground up restored' 280sl...
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2016, 09:58:50 »
Looks to me like you bought it at private money but are expecting retail money results.
It seems a little unfair on the seller IMHO.

Erics

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Re: My German 'Ground up restored' 280sl...
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2016, 14:29:01 »
Thank you JonnyB, found quite a few interesting things searching.

Colin, the private seller is fine, it's just Dornmueller who did not finish the job just right. I am not moaning. I am a big boy (i suppose!) buying a classic car and prepared to stomach some of the less pleasant sides of ownership.

I am simply sharing an experience with like minded people and asking for a few bits of advice.

 :)

Now if anyone knows how to tighten the front hardtop attachments?

Rolf-Dieter ✝︎

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Re: My German 'Ground up restored' 280sl...
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2016, 16:24:11 »
Hi Erics,

Sorry to hear about your misfortune (so many issues after purchasing your Pagoda).

As for the tightening of your roof at the front I can only recommend having a very close look at the hardware in your roof and in the windshield frame left and right I suspect you might be dealing here with worn hardware that needs replacement (engagement hardware that tightens down the roof when using key part no 244-017).

Perhaps the previous owner had the hardtop on and off quite often and the closing mechanism is simply worn out. However, this may be unlikely since I am sure the engineers/designers had this hardware specially hardened to prevent this. The other possebilety might be that the hardware came loose. I would check for wear and looseness.

Good Luck,

Dieter
DD 2011 SL 63 AMG and my 69 Pagoda 280 SL

66andBlue

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Re: My German 'Ground up restored' 280sl...
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2016, 17:00:02 »
Now if anyone knows how to tighten the front hardtop attachments?
Do you have any shims under the locking pins that you can remove?
http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=17760.0;attach=18574;image

There is nothing much that you can adjust; take a look here:
http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=17760.0;attach=18576;image

Is the front seal new? It should be a softer, almost sponge like rubber.
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

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Re: My German 'Ground up restored' 280sl...
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2016, 17:12:47 »
Good information Alfred !

Dieter
DD 2011 SL 63 AMG and my 69 Pagoda 280 SL

Erics

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Re: My German 'Ground up restored' 280sl...
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2016, 20:26:11 »
Rolf, Alfred, top information! Thank you kindly.

Let me digest this information and pass it to Raikku who looks after my car. I will soon revert...