Author Topic: 280se 5-speed? (Read 8394 times)

johnk · « **on:** September 20, 2016, 11:18:18 »

My brother has been storing a 1968 280se in his barn for many years for a friend that has since passed away. His friend Ray told him many times that the value of the car lied in the rare manual transmission that it had. Does anyone know if they made a five speed for the 280se and is it the same beloved five speed that fits in our sl's?

114015 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 20, 2016, 19:51:15 »

Hello John,

Well, I don't think that a 280SE / W108 with (4-speed) stick shift is particularily more valuable than a car with auto transmission. Most owners prefer the auto I think.

Furthermore, the overall condition (being rust-free, originality,options) decides how much a particular car is worth, not so much the auto versus manual question.
The 4-speed manual gear box is interchangable with the Pagoda gear box - if tunnel-shifted.
If column-shifted, then the gear box top lid would need to be exchanged.

As to the 5-speed, yes, I there was one available but only after 1969 (for the 108's with the wide tunnel). This is for sure not the rare ZF 5-speed that fits the narrow Pagoda tunnel but the also rare (and bulky) MB 5-speed with side-mounted levers, the MB G 76/27 (A)-5.
Not usable for a Pagoda if you had one...

Pic is somewhere from the WWW and belongs to that particular homepage owner.
Not mine.

Achim
(without 5-speed MB G 76/27 (A)-5)

johnk · « **Reply #2 on:** September 21, 2016, 01:57:37 »

Thanks Achim. This is a big help.

Damn I was already picturing myself shifting into 5th gear on the highway in my Pagoda! lol.

The transmission should be worth something to a 280se owner anyways. I did read something that the 280se five speeds are extremely rare themselves. My brother is literally going blind and could use the cash. I was going to overpay him for it as a way to help him out. I will just help him find a buyer for the five speed instead.

ja17 · « **Reply #3 on:** September 21, 2016, 05:48:22 »

What's the rest of the car like John? I did get a ZF 5speed out of a W109 Mercedes sedan some years back.

johnk · « **Reply #4 on:** September 22, 2016, 03:40:16 »

Hi Joe,
body wise its excellent. the guy who had it tore most of the body apart, painted it white but never put it back together. its been safe and dry in my brothers barn for many years. we are going to pull it out of the barn this weekend and get a better look at it. I will get underneath and take some transmission pictures this weekend and will post them to the site.

johnk · « **Reply #5 on:** September 26, 2016, 03:36:24 »

Joe,
Looks like you may be right! The shift linkage on the top matches the zf 5 speed pictures on the internet. The bottom of the transmission llooks very similar to my 4 speed. Anything specific I should look for when we pull the car out of the barn?

GGR · « **Reply #6 on:** September 26, 2016, 05:28:52 »

Quote from: johnk on September 26, 2016, 03:36:24

Anything specific I should look for when we pull the car out of the barn?

Yes, make sure it is a 5 speed. I once went to see a car advertised with a 5 speed. When I got there it became clear that the 5th gear was in fact the reverse. Take pictures and post them here, we may be able to confirm what is on that car.

johnk · « **Reply #7 on:** September 26, 2016, 12:18:11 »

Thanks GGR,

I will post the pics as soon as I can figure out how to get them off my locked phone! I did take the cover off the top and was able to confirm that there was three positions forward from the neutral channel and three positions towards me. I am a bit cautious as it sounds too good to be true, finding a zf-5 speed in my brother's garage literally the day after I told my son the only way I would ever consider selling my pagoda is if it was worth a lot of money after I restored it and I was able to find a 5 speed to restore.

johnk · « **Reply #8 on:** September 26, 2016, 21:37:35 »

Here are the few pics I was able to take while the car is still in the barn surrounded by junk. The pictures taken under the care may look backwards from right to left.

johnk · « **Reply #9 on:** September 26, 2016, 21:38:57 »

sorry I posted one of the pics twice

114015 · « **Reply #10 on:** September 26, 2016, 23:42:32 »

Quote

es, make sure it is a 5 speed. I once went to see a car advertised with a 5 speed. When I got there it became clear that the 5th gear was in fact the reverse.

[/size]

Same here ....

This is clearly an ordinary 4-speed gearbox.
Nothing else I would have expected on an W108...

Sorry....

Achim

Shvegel · « **Reply #11 on:** September 27, 2016, 01:16:17 »

Regrettably Achim is right. I went down to my wood shop and took this photo of the 4 speed I have. It has value of Maybe $300 if clean. If it had the top shifter for the 113 it would be worth far more.

Shvegel · « **Reply #12 on:** September 27, 2016, 01:48:28 »

Here is the same side of the ZF 5 speed.

ja17 · « **Reply #13 on:** September 27, 2016, 06:55:38 »

By the looks of the slave cylinder and mating plate, the set-up might be from a 6cyl 300
SE W109. However these cars also had the Mercedes 4spd. transmissions and a very few had the ZF 5 speed. Looks like yours is the four speed.

johnk · « **Reply #14 on:** September 27, 2016, 12:06:03 »

I agree looking at everything now that it certainly does look like the four speed rather than the ZF pictures. What is weird though is I pulled the tunnel cover off over the transmission and had full view of the linkage. I easily found the neutral lane left to right. I could easily shift into three separate detents above the neutral zone, but also did the same for three detents below the neutral zone watching the linkage move and click into the transmission on each. When I pull the shift lever on my four speed SL back from the nuetral position it has a hard stop in the nuetral lane. Thinsone clicks and moves towards me past the nuetral lane.

Could I be on drugs or just guilty of extremely wishful thinking? The previous owner was an engineering genius and a Check Republic war hero/folk legend so its too easy for me to believe he could have or make unusual things.

I guess to satisfy my curiosity we can pull it out of the barn this weekend, and attempt to push the car in each of the supposed 6 positions to see if it engages the motor in each. I'm sure I will be a bit embarased when I report my results back this weekend, but at least I felt like I found the Golden Wonka ticket for a few days!

ja17 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 03, 2016, 03:26:56 »

John what you have is a 300SE engine in this car. The bell housing is unique and notice the extra aluminum struts going to the oil pan from the mating plate. Also notice that the engine/trans mating plate is a thin steel plate and not the typical 2" thick aluminum plate. Read the serial number off the engine block. Most likely is "189" not "130".

ja17 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 03, 2016, 03:32:35 »

Yes, unfortunately it looks like a standard four speed box hooked to a 300SE engine and bell housing.

johnk · « **Reply #17 on:** October 05, 2016, 03:00:30 »

Thanks Joe and everyone else that contributed. I woke up from my dream when we pulled it out in the light Sunday. Yes it certainly felt like 6 different shifting positions, but what we found is the linkage was loose and didn't rotate the shifting rod in the transmission all the way to the left or right. When we thought we were shifting forward an back in the first lane, we were still in the center lane all of the time. Well it was fun to dream for a few days!

Joe you are right on the money. The engine code does say its a 189 engine.

Any suggestions on what could be of any value on the car other than parting out the front end sheet metal to a convertible owner? I hate to tell my brother to just haul it to the junk yard.

Thanks
John

wjsvb ✝︎ · « **Reply #18 on:** October 05, 2016, 12:10:40 »

John: There are a ton of saleable parts on this vehicle, though the process is time-consuming. First off, the front fenders are 108/109 only; they do not fit the coupe/cabrio models. If you think you'd like to try parting it out, suggest you troll around on this site and on eBay and Google to see what others are doing and decide whether it might be better to sell the car whole. If you do part it out, you want a place to keep it inside during the process: unscrewing parts in rain and snow ain't fun and the car itself will go down fast in the Ohio winter. Good luck!

GGR · « **Reply #19 on:** October 05, 2016, 14:44:53 »

W108s with M189 motors, if original, are rare cars. They are 300s wity spring suspensions and a W108 chassis instead of W109. I think they are rarer than the W109 and w111 Coupes equipped with an M189.

ja17 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 06, 2016, 14:04:30 »

Yes the M189 engine is used in some valuable coupes and convertibles. It is an aluminum block engine. Could be valuable if someone needs it. It is closely related but not the same as the old M198 300SL engine. Notice the large generator with the water pump driven off the rear of the generator. Years back, I sold a good one to a 300SE convertible owner in Chile! If this car has coil springs it is indeed a rare 300SE W108 (2,700 made). If it has air bags in is a more common W109. Unfortunately, it is one of those rare cars that no one is looking for! The parts are valuable to someone who needs them. If it is a coil spring car, it could have a very desirable rear end ratio 3.69 or 3.43 Be sure to check this before scrapping it. Lots of other good parts usable on our cars..........

scoot · « **Reply #21 on:** October 06, 2016, 21:40:13 »

If your brother-in-law is taking the car apart, I could really use a M130 manual transmission flywheel and connecting bolts. I want to use my parts car M130 engine (with automatic transmission) in my 220S fintail retaining the fintail manual transmission...

ja17 · « **Reply #22 on:** October 07, 2016, 02:48:37 »

Scoot, it is a M189 engine not a M130, the flywheels are completely different.

scoot · « **Reply #23 on:** October 07, 2016, 02:53:06 »

Quote from: ja17 on October 07, 2016, 02:48:37

Scoot, it is a M189 engine not a M130, the flywheels are completely different.

Crap.

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Author Topic: 280se 5-speed? (Read 8394 times)