FRAUD ON EBAY!!!

[terry shores]

Be aware of a current scam on Ebay.  They put a car on for real cheap and then immediately pull it off of ebay.  Then they send you a letter like this!!! (copy)

Hello there,
Thank you for your interest in my Mercedes-Benz. I want you to know that I have closed my auction earlier because someone has offered me the buy it now price, but didn't have all the money available and I cannot accept financing because time is a real issue for me. The price I want to obtain for it is $15,000 US (this price includes shipment and insurance charges).
 
My wife was recently promoted so we had to move in Greece. We brought the car with us, wanting to register it here, but I couldn't because it is a US vehicle and to get it registered here it will need serious engine modifications in order to comply with the EU emission standards. So that is why I prefer to sell it quick now and get rid of it while I still can, because time is running and I can't keep it like that, there is a deadline term when I must pay the import tax, so I can't afford to lose time and I prefer to make some money while I still can.
 
The car is like new, completely working 2700 miles, 2005 model, with 4 years EXTENDED, INTERNATIONAL and TRANSFERABLE warranty, which will be honored at any dealer from there. It is US model with US specs and passed the US test emissions. The car is insured in case of damage and you will receive it in 8-9 working days by Lufthansa at your home address. The title is clear and you will register it in your state without problems. I will send the car having written on it 'gift' so you won't have to pay any additional taxes. It will come with all the papers (warranty, insurance etc. ...).
 
The shipping costs and the insurance taxes of the package will be down to me and you only pay for the money transfer commission when you wire the funds, which is about 4% from the total amount sent. The car is being shipped from Greece and you won't have to pay for customs or any additional taxes when it will arrive. There may be some customs for you to pay, but if you wish we can avoid them: you'll declare you send money to a friend and I will declare the shipping as a gift/donation.
 
I am requesting a $6,500 US refundable deposit prior shipping and the balance to be paid after delivery and inspection. If you are not 100% content with the car, you will ship it back on my expense to get your deposit back. I am sure this will not happen, because it is a state of the art vehicle and you will have no reason not to be content with it.
This is a large purchase and I would like to use a third party for this transaction as I want a smooth and safe transaction. We will use Square Trade, I have completed a lot of successful deals using them. I have a purchase protection account of $15,000 with them. If this is your first time using Square Trade here are their terms: if you will not receive the vehicle exactly as advertised or you won't receive it in 15 days since you made the deposit, Square Trade will refund you from my Square Trade account.

If you agree with these terms, please send me your full name, home and shipping address so I can register the transaction with Square Trade asap
Regards,
Kevin

[Jonny B]

I had heard about a number of similar kinds of things through Sports Car Market magazine (they reported on a scam in Thailand with a 300SL)They had not mentioned anything about a 113 related issue, but I guess it is no surprise. SCM mag has a detailed list of letters this month about similar kinds of issues.

Jonny B
1967 250SL Auto

[hands_aus]

I was scammed for $1500.00 AUD at the beginning of this year, 2005.

I was bidding on a soft top frame and lost at the end by someone who hadn't bid previously.

After the auction I received a "Second Chance offer" which looked legitimate to me. It used eBay web pages and links (which all worked).

I was excited by the situation and because everything looked legitimate I went ahead and sent off the money.

After I sent the money I received 2 other "second Chance" offers from 2 other would be scammers.

I immediately tried to stop the payment but it was too late.

The person was in Chicago and I am in Australia.

Ebay lets anybody who has been "watching" an auction see the bidders' names and make contact with them after the auction has ended. You can also check out their bidding profile.

Try it!

Those names are only needed by the seller not by anybody else.

eBay won't accept responsibility for the fact that they freely make available the names and access to the bidders to the scammers.

Of course scammers probably target people like me from outside their own country because of the distance and the fact that my profile feed back says that I am a good payer.

What is the saying? ... there is a sucker born every minute.

I have written the $1500.00 off as a bad life experience but before giving in to the miserable sods I have passed all my emails including header info to the USA FBI agency for Internet Fraud.

In real terms I do not expect to receive justice but at least I know that I have put the matter into the hands of the best Internet fraud agency in the USA.

My advice.... watch your back! be very careful when dealing with unkowns on the internet.

I have become very distrusting and I now look at everything said or emailed to me with suspicion.

I have not told this story on here because I have not wanted to alarm anybody but in reality maybe you should be warned so that you too do not become a victim.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

[Bill Rader]

Thanks Terry and Bob.
I know how hard it must be to admit to being ripped off and tell everyone about it.
These scammers are very good at what they do and anyone can be a victim to them.
I will be more suspicious of my dealings with people on E-Bay.

Again thank you very much!
Bill Rader
Ivory 250SL
4spd

[Douglas]

I think one of the beauties of this forum is that we exchange this exact information. In the past, we've also been apprised of details about stolen SLs since we tend to notice them. Groups like this definitely make it harder for the bad guys.

On another subject, I'd like to disagree with one thing Bob Smith mentioned. I believe bidders should be able to see the identities of other bidders. When I am serious about something on ebay, I want to know everything about the auction -- who's bidding, the number of zero-rated bidders, the number of multiple bidders, etc. Transparency makes me feel better about the process. In fact, I always feel suspicious about auctions with the identities of bidders kept secret. Just a personal preference.

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

[Cees Klumper]

Lately like Bob I have become much more suspicious of Ebay transactions, not so much because of Ebay itself but of the apparent possibilities there are for scamming. The biggest tell-tale sign of this is that Ebay itself has become much more strict about security of late. This is a very bad sign, as the whole process depends to a large extent on trust between the buyers and sellers. If this trust is no longer founded, the process stops to work. The past few years I have bought some higher-value items on Ebay (between $1,000 and $2,000) but I don't think I will anymore.

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[ChrisInNashville]

I have considerable POSITIVE ebay experience as primarily a buyer, but also a seller.   However, I've never seen a "second chance offer" that appeared legitimate to me - particularly when it comes in minutes after the auction ended.

Some rules of thumb:
a) always pay by paypal for big $ items.   The inability/unwillingness for a seller to qualify for a paypal account is a serious redflag.  You can check seller forums on ebay and you'll see that paypal is VERY buyer focused...if you challenge the charge, they'll usually favor you.
b) always report anything suspicious to ebay.   I've done this many times and they've always responded...and a couple scams were uncovered.
c) read the seller's feedback scores.  If they're active and have a score in the high 90's, that's good.   But keep in mind that a seller with a thousand sales and a 95% favorable score still had 50 folks dissatisfied...so high 90's are a good indicator.

Ebay is a great thing!    In the economist's sense, it's close to 'perfect information' on the market, and I think it's done a lot for our hobby.

[terry shores]

I have bought lots of cars on ebay and also sold several!  Your info is right on.  This crook though took it to another level!!  I recognized immediately when I got the email and the second chance offer that there were alot of red flags.  I had the advantage of the same creep trying to pull the exact same scam on a friend of mine about a month ago.  I just played along like I was going to buy the car, I HAD ZERO DOUBT HE WAS TRYING TO STEAL MY DEPOSIT.  On the original ebay sellers ad, he had somehow cut and pasted all the information on a legitimate seller!! (I was able to contact this seller later and he confirmed it) So, if you do all the normal feedback due diligence.  Everything looked good!! He even had it set up that if you used the help buttom to report suspicious activity, he got the email, not ebay!! Very professional.  Here is copy of email after I had said I will take the car! Ed is my fake name!!
************************************************************
Hello Ed,
 
Thank you for your details.

My full name is Kevin Gerald and my address is 36 Queen Sophia Avenue, Athens 10674, Greece

The final price for the vehicle is $15,000. You will have it at your door in 8-9 working days after you will make the deposit of $6,500 The balance of $8,500 will be paid after you inspect it.

It will be sent via Lufthansa Cargo and I will pay all the shipping, insurance and handling taxes. The car will come with a clear title and all the papers (including the original manuals,the keys etc.).

The vehicle will be shipped from Greece. You will not have to pay any extra taxes in US (like customs or other fees) because I will send it like a gift for my best friend (or donation, if you wish so).

The payment will be supervised by Square Trade and only after you will receive the package I will be able to get the deposit. As soon as I will have the deposit confirmation from Square
Trade I will send you the vehicle. After you will receive and inspect it, you will send a second confirmation to Square Trade so they will send me the information regarding the transfer so I can get my money. It is 100% safe for both of us.

After the vehicle arrives you will have 5 days to inspect it. If you're not 100% content with it, you will send it back to me on my expense, for a full refund. I am positive it will not be the case.

I have already contacted Square Trade. Please let me know when you receive the invoice from them.

Respectfully,
Kevin************************************************************

I then received instructions from Ebays "SQUARE TRADE" on HOW to pay for the car, All of the appropriate logos and info was there.  I was to pay my deposit through Western Union.  I went to contact Square Trade off of these instructions and sure enough, when you click on Contact, the email that you send went right to the crook!!

Anyway, to make a long story short (sort of) This crook had alot of the bases covered, obviously very good with a computer and he has been pulling off his scams for at least a month without getting caught!! While his computer skills are excellent, it was pretty stupid saying he would sell a $100,000 blue book mercedes for 15k.  But, obviously some people fall for it!!!  My point is, several of the normal ways that  you would double check to see if this was legit or not, HE HAD THOSE BASES MOSTLY COVERED!!





christietz
Regular Level



USA
79 Posts
 Posted - 05 Jun 2005 :  23:12:30        
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
I have considerable POSITIVE ebay experience as primarily a buyer, but also a seller. However, I've never seen a "second chance offer" that appeared legitimate to me - particularly when it comes in minutes after the auction ended.

Some rules of thumb:
a) always pay by paypal for big $ items. The inability/unwillingness for a seller to qualify for a paypal account is a serious redflag. You can check seller forums on ebay and you'll see that paypal is VERY buyer focused...if you challenge the charge, they'll usually favor you.
b) always report anything suspicious to ebay. I've done this many times and they've always responded...and a couple scams were uncovered.
c) read the seller's feedback scores. If they're active and have a score in the high 90's, that's good. But keep in mind that a seller with a thousand sales and a 95% favorable score still had 50 folks dissatisfied...so high 90's are a good indicator.

Ebay is a great thing! In the economist's sense, it's close to 'perfect information' on the market, and I think it's done a lot for our hobby.

[hands_aus]

Terry,
What did you do about this attempt at fraud?

It was the same type of thing with the guy who scammed me. He was very sophisticated in his computer usage and screen presentations. He used all eBay correct warnings and links and they all worked.
Maybe ebay shouldn't make it so easy for people to steal their websites.

I am not against ebay. I still use it but I am very cautious.

There are sellers with parts for our cars who will only accept cash deposits or Western Union transfers. I won't bid on their items.

Douglas,
My comment about only the sellers having access to the bidders was about after the auction had ended, not during the auction period.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

[terry shores]

HANDS, I immediately contacted Ebay, I filed a report with the FBI, I contacted the seller who had his seller info stolen by this creep who said he had contacted live people at ebay and was spending alot of time dealing with the repercussions of this.  I attempted to contact square trade, but that one went to the crook!!  The crooks email was kevinsharon@aol.com so after the crook found out I was on to him (took 3 days) I had a friend with aol instant message him.  He immediately went offline and has been that way since!! I am sure he has multiple aol accounts and is back at it again!!


hands_aus Posted - 06 Jun 2005 : 08:16:14
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Terry,
What did you do about this attempt at fraud?

[Douglas]

Bob,

I will sometimes even look at the bid history of a completed auction if I'm trying to do due diligence on a seller. If he has a lot of fishy bidders all the time, it raises flags.

Unfortunately, transparency in auctions works both ways. It can help people make informed decisions, but it can also definitely be exploited by the bad guys.

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

[TheEngineer]

I was taken for the purchase price and shipping of a "Club". On 12/19/'04 I bid on and won Item 7942580886, a Club LX. When I received the package I saw right away that it was the cheaper, regular club. I sent it back without accepting the package. The seller says, he never received it back and never refunded my money. eBay and PayPal were little help. I'm just out $33.80 This is a small amount compared to what "hands aus" was cheated out of, but it still hurts. The seller was Perry R. Prine, 19401 Renwood, Euclid, OH 44119 (216)246-0637. But I have bought and sold about 33 items on eBay and this is the only one that went sour. There are many good people out there and regrettably, some slime.

[Benz Dr.]

And now you guys know why I've never bought ANYTHING through ebay. I warned that these sorts of things were going to happen.

Frankly, I blame ebay. It's their company and they're not protecting people well enough from crooks.  While ebay can be a useful tool for many, it's also a useful tool for bad guys.

Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org

[n/a]

Lately, there seem to be a lot of new part sellers on eBay selling parts that are very cheap.  Like the sun visors going for $25 when we know one can sell them (even a beat up one) for over $100. I am not saying they are all crooks. It is just very unusual to have all these new seller that we never heard of before.

Louis 70 280sl auto red

[France]

Hi Guys,

A couple of red flags in this letter--one is the general wordiness.  But the big one is that c&*) about the EU emissions.  What nonsense.

I do what Doug says and investigate the seller as thoroughly as I can.  I always ask questions of the seller.  If I don't get an answer, I don't bid. As some of you know, I bought Carling on eBay (collective gasp [:0]).  Yes it was a BIG risk, but I talked to the seller on the phone (ran down a checklist of items, asked a million questions), and I guess after a lifetime of risks I'm a little more comfortable with the calculated ones now.  I realize that I am supremely lucky that she is almost perfect--even the heater levers, A/C, and windshield wipers.

Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder
Sarasota FL; Alsace France

[ChrisInNashville]

Well, let me add fuel to a fire here.   I'm a banker, so I'm really sensitive to some of this stuff.

You've heard of "phishing" where someone sents you an email from a bank or other entity asking for personal information to "confirm" this or that...

Well, now you have to worry about "pharming" where you type in a legitimate web address, but are redirected to a similar official looking site, that is fraudulent.

You are usually redirected by a virus.   For instance, you might put in "www.ebay.com"   but you're redirected to a different, but similar, address that looks just like ebay.    Might happen with your bank, etc.

Bottom line:  
1) Watch the details of the address
2) Keep virus scan programs current ( I also use a free download of ad-aware)
3) Watch where you go...some sites look like candy to a little boy, but they're anything but sweet.