Wanted 5spd zf trans for 230sl

[turbinmech]

  Wanted 5spd zf trans for my 66 230sl please contact
John P Kelly  Livermore Ca  " turbinmech73@msn.com "

[Jonny B]

Here ya go:
http://www.authenticclassics.com/New-ZF-5-Speed-Transmission-for-230SL-250SL-280SL-p/auth-004230.htm

[t walgamuth]

How much will a new zf increase the value of a nice 113?

[Garry]

If your data card shows that it came with that option, then a lot but if you are just wanting a 5 speed, then the cost will be greater than the return.

[Chris_ATL]

$24k? Yikes....

If you have are wanting to swap in a non original, then you can get a full kit in the UK to help improve cruising comfort... It's a bit more "affordable"

https://www.theslshop.com/parts-shop/mercedes-benz-w113-sl-pagoda-parts/drive-train/gearbox/mercedes-benz-w111-w113-automatic-to-six-speed-manual-gearbox.html

[drmb]

If you are still looking i have a ZF 5 speed complete with remote,front half of prop shaft and rear mount all in good condition for sale originally from a 68 280sl

[likes2laff]

Has anyone installed the one offered by the SL-Shop? Thoughts? Feedback? I have an automatic...what else would I need besides that kit (For instance, I don't have a clutch pedal)?

[johnk]

I am curious as well. Not sure I'm ready to plop another 7,200 US into my car yet, but this seems reasonable compared to some of the other options.

[likes2laff]

$7,200 US?

[johnk]

It lists the four speed manual to 6 speed conversion at just under 6,000 Euro's which I thought converted to about 7,200 US. The conversion from an automatic to 6 speed manual is more.

Is your question that its still a lot of money? I don't disagree with that.

[likes2laff]

The SL Shop site shows the 4/5 speed to 6 Speed at 6,000 pounds which is about $8,400. The automatic to 6 speed is 8,500 pounds which is about $12,000...yikes!

[johnk]

Well it looks like I don't know the difference between the Euro symbol vs the Pound. Definitely out of my price range now!

[likes2laff]

Does anyone have specific experience or knowledge about the six speed offering from vendor Rudolf Thom referenced above? It looks like Pagoda Mafia got one...it looks like he is selling his car now.

[66andBlue]

Call Karl Middelhauve, I believe he installed a few.
http://www.mbgrand600.com/

[likes2laff]

Grazie!

[Benz Dr.]

The one thing I would want to know is what is the engine RPM at 60 MPH. This is the speed most of us would drive our cars in most cruising situations. Normally, engine speed would above 3,000 RPM for all of the standard gear ratios available from MB and this will give you full ignition advance at that speed. I can't think that engine speeds of 2,000 or less at 60 MPH is going to be healthy for an engine that's designed to run at mid range engine speeds.

Basing late model engine tech on 50 year old ideas may not be a good idea. Each will have to sort this question out for themselves.

[likes2laff]

I think if Mercedes had a high caliber 6 speed transmission available in 1967 when my car was built, we would have seen it in our cars - the ZF 5 speed was made available in 1966. 

Mercedes seemed to think the 5 speed ZF was okay with it's 5th gear overdrive at .81 vs the six speed with .78 in 5th (a difference of only 3.8%). Many people, including myself, drive on 75 MPH roads at closer to 80 and having the option to use an extra gear for that can hardly be considered a disadvantage. Especially considering 75 MPH in 6th gear with the 6-speed would be the same RPM's as the ZF 5-speed in 5th at 60 MPH.

In any case, with a manual, gears are options...not obligations.

For Reference:

Gear        Merc. 4-Speed      ZF 5-Speed            6-Speed
   1                    4.05                 3.83                 4.002
   2                    2.23                 2.20                 2.108
   3                    1.40                 1.40                 1.380
   4                    1.00                 1.00                 1.000
   5 (OD)                                    0.81                 0.780
   6 (OD)                                                            0.645

Incidentally, the car I am referring to is a 1967 250SL which has the 4.08 pinion/ring rear axle and the programmable wireless 123 Ignition unit.

I haven't decided what I'm going to do. I spoke with Mark Bull. I spoke with Modern Drive Line about a "project". Jury is still out.

[six speed classic Gearbox]

Hi Karl,

thank you KARL
for the good news, there are installed 312 pagodas with 6 speed,
no one wants to go back to 4 or 5 gears

[66andBlue]

...
for the good news, there are installed 312 pagodas with 6 speed,
....

Where are these Pagodas located? Can you provide some proof for your claims?
How many are driving around in the USA? Can one contact a few dozen of these 312 Pagoda owners and ask them how satisfied they are, what problems they encountered during installation (if any), any subsequent repairs, etc, etc. ?
Otherwise all your claims remain virtual and not substantive.

[mbzse]

.../...ask them how satisfied they are, what problems they encountered during installation (if any), any subsequent repairs, etc, etc. ?

And please, can you change the heading of this discussion since it has drifted; no longer anything to do with ZF 5-sp.

[six speed classic Gearbox]

please ride to k-max@live.de
and infos comming soun

thx

tom

[likes2laff]

Rudolf,

Some of us are clearly skeptical...your unit has not been available that long and it seems that very few people are even aware it exists. So far, I have found only one person in the Pagoda SL Group who states outwardly that he has your unit so 312 is hard to believe.

Since you are a vendor, I think you will find folks receptive to your input if you focus on objective information about your offering as long as it is presented in a way that is not a sales pitch....just the facts. What is the source and model of the core transmission? How do you deal with the bell housing issues? What about spare parts? Tell us about materials and servicing (where)? Tell us about the clutch and other special components for the automatic to 6-speed conversion? Fluids, testing? No vague statements, innuendo or puffery please.

And given you are a vendor with a clear bias, PLEASE avoid sweeping statements of opinion that are obviously intended to support your offering and are, frankly, off-putting to many people. For instance, "no one wants to go back to 4 or 5 gears" is clearly a sweeping opinion which is definitely not true for everyone...many pagoda owners would prefer the originality of the Merc 4-speed or prefer the fact that the service/support documentation for that solution is part of readily available standard literature for our cars or that they are currently serviced by experienced technicians.

Also, you might want to ask someone to help you with your English translations...I want to hear any factual information you may have to offer about the 6-speed but I struggle to understand you sometimes.

Thanks!

[six speed classic Gearbox]

First of all, I have to apologize for my bad English, since I am a German I am bored in 1954 and have been living in Poland for 23 years, I have been working with classic cars for years (my whole life) and incidentally designed and made also parts for classics.

Not only the six speed gearbox but also a big part are early 911 racing car parts.

I'm not a great writer, bud a good developer.

to find out more about my six speed, please contact me directly on my e-mail k-max@live.de
I am open for help in texts

Thank you very much


PS:the photo in the appendix is from my fair stand at the world's largest classic car fair in germany

[likes2laff]

I have been communicating with the company via anna.thom@onet.eu.

The problem I have is the payment terms. There is no contract, no guaranteed delivery date, no refund provision after a certain period of time if the shipment never occurs, etc. Simply wiring what is the equivalent of 35% of the average income a year in Poland to a Polish company I've never heard of without any shipping, delivery or other guarantees is a very risky proposition. I have been in far too many situations where a company said something was in stock and after I paid for it was told that I just missed the last one...and then the company has my money and I have no product...and they become very slow to respond to emails and phone calls. At least with a credit card I have recourse when faced with potential failures of fair dealing.

In my correspondence, I said I would use a credit card and even pay any additional fees the company would incur for this in order to give myself some protections if it never ships, ships to the wrong place, is never received, or even if the wire transfer goes through and  the company claims they never got it.

I would buy one as early as Monday if some reasonable transaction protections are in place and will happily report my experience.

Thanks,
David Lees
1-917-338-6446

[six speed classic Gearbox]

Through various satisfied customers, I was able to find out that the engine in a much better torque in the sixth gear already at 60mph and 2000m the engine unfolds a very good performance,
The consumption goes back enormously, the wear is lower and much gentler. Noises are very pleasant.
The fuel and the engine oil today is a completely different than 50 years ago

when I had 12 years ago with the development of the 6 speed I had first of all also consider whether the engine has enough power ... people have said that the end speed is not reached.

total nonsense in the sixth gear I have the largest torque at 120mls and not as in 4 th gear at 120mph and 6000 rpm

In addition, the new 6 speed has a very clean and sporty to switch 6-speed Haarschaltung, first gear front left.

For me, the pagoda is only now a sports car since the six speed is created.
and the best thing is when you buy the six speed, the kit is delivered ready for assembly
No extra accessories need to be purchased.

Any questions
Thanks for the attention
tom