Becker Europa question

[Scottcorvette]

My new radio arrived today and is very lovely, but I believe is incorrect for my car and I wonder if the groups knowledge could help me out once more. I have an early 1964 230SL which takes a small face radio. I am given to understand that to be absolutely correct the car would have had a Europa TG but am informed that is not a particularly good or reliable unit, and that in 1964 a Europa TR with separate amp was also available and would be correct.

That is what I ordered but I guess there was a mistake somewhere along the line and I have received a Becker Europa with no separate amplifier. I'm assuming this radio doesn't require a separate amplifier, it also has a tone arm and I believe the TR does not.

So should I keep this or return it? sending it back is a bit of a pain for everyone so if this is a significantly better radio then I might hang on to it. I'd also like to know if this radio would have been available in '64, I think it is correct for '67/68 but wouldn't mind someone who knows confirming that.

I am trying to keep the car pretty original but am making a few changes, euro headlights instead of US, leather instead of MBTex and a 5 speed. There was no radio listed on the data card, so whilst not a 100 point concours original car its probably going to be 90%

Any thoughts gang?

[Jowe]

Why not go for a Blaupunkt Frankfurt that was a common dealer mounted unit in Europe at that time, since your car didn't have any radio from factory?

[Scottcorvette]

I liked the look of the Becker. it is more a question of the Europa verses the Europa TR. I ordered the TR but have the Euroopa and I wondered if it was worth going through the hassle of changing it, and would I actually be better off with the one piece radio or the one with separate amplifier.

[scoot]

Post a picture of the radio from the top.  I want to see the area between the faceplate and the body of the radio.

If this a small-radio (which I can't tell from the pics) then someone made it.  A Europa never came as a small-face radio.   I think if you paid for a Europa TR you should get a Europa TR.  The TR is a more expensive radio.     I would also be curious to see the knob shafts without the knobs on the radio, but that's less important.  That's must more about how someone made this...

[Scottcorvette]

here you go, this is from the top.

[scoot]

here you go, this is from the top.

OK, so that's a big-face Europa that someone has turned into a small-face Europa.  It will fit.  But it's wrong.  A Europa of that vintage would never have been created with either small knobs or small face.  So the question is "do you care"?  I don't know the answer to that.  I know that the price for a Europa TR is a lot higher than the price for a Europa, and that someone on ebay makes small-face kits to convert a big face to a small face, but he doesn't allow for the tone arm that the Europa has and the Europa TR does not have.  (Tone on a Europa TR is high - low controlled by pushing of pulling the volume knob into one of two set locations.)

[scoot]

It appears from your photographs that the seller used the chrome retaining bezel on the right shaft (tuning) but didn't include it on the left shaft (volume).  Instead taking up the space is the tone arm.  That's just wrong.  The face is held to the radio by means of two chrome retaining bezels, on the left and right shafts.  There is nothing holding the radio together on the left side so there is extra tension on the right side.  I would imagine that at some point this will cause the dial scale to crack on the right side due to extra tension.

If it were me, and if you paid more than about $400 for this, I would send it back and get what you paid for - a small face TR.

Scott

[Scottcorvette]

Well I feel a bit cheated now. It was significantly more than $400. The vendor has said I can return it and they will supply a TR although initially they said they didn't have any in stock but then offered one in approximately 4 weeks. Time isn't an issue but I must admit Im now nervous about what I might get.

I don't want a Frankenradio thats for sure.

[scoot]

Well I feel a bit cheated now. It was significantly more than $400. The vendor has said I can return it and they will supply a TR although initially they said they didn't have any in stock but then offered one in approximately 4 weeks. Time isn't an issue but I must admit Im now nervous about what I might get.

I don't want a Frankenradio thats for sure.

I think you were cheated and that the substitution of a Europa for a Europa TR without informing you and without your approval is a poor business practice.  Most buyers probably wouldn't have done the research to know that they were being cheated, but you have the forum so YAY!.  Sorry you feel cheated.  And I don't know what you paid but based on the vendor I'm thinking it was a lot of money.  If it were me, I would return it for refund.  The last time I sold a pretty nice TR it was for about $700, which is I suspect still under what you paid. 

I think it's fine to make Frankenradios.  In the case of this one I would have chosen to leave the tone selection in the middle and utilize the intended retaining chrome bezel.  That would have made it a slightly better Frankenradio.  I think one of the biggest problems in keeping this radio is now that you know, every time you see the radio you will see the plastic tone arm on the left side and realize that there is really supposed to be something there that holds the face to the radio.  At least that would drive me crazy...   It's also possible that the proper retaining bezel won't fit there because the inner diameter of the bezel may hit the tone portion of the shaft.

[Scottcorvette]

I paid €830 for the radio which seemed about the going rate comparing Konigs, Becker Autosound and Authentic Classics.

I didn't want to get one off eBay as I don't know enough about these to make a judgement on what Im buying from photos, and I didn't want to get a clunker to get restored as I wanted something that would look perfect and function perfectly, and be 100% correct. I have found that it is often easier and cheaper in the long run to bite the bullet and get something like this than to find the donor and then get it restored.

The restoration looks lovely and I cant fault the outward appearance of it at all, also they have been easy to deal with, for some reason they kept pushing this one piece radio in favour of the TR.

I'm not going to spend that amount on a radio though and get something incorrect or made up. The reason I went with Konigs was because they had everything I needed from one place and it came with a two year warranty. They have offered to exchange it for a TR but I think I will ask them for photos of the radio that they are going to restore before we start otherwise I'll return it for a refund.

Yet again the value of the group is proven. Wish I'd just gone for the delete plate option now.

[scoot]

Good for you for exchanging it.  WAY too much money for a Europa.  Personally I doubt any of the three vendors really do what they say.  I think it's all cosmetic.

Things that identify a TR: 
1.  separate amp
2.  The volume knob is also an in/out switch for tone (high/low)
3.  No tone arm.

Also, the black plastic name bar is black plastic that has the lettering inset and painted white.  The reproduction ones are clear plastic that have the painting done on the back.  (black white).  The repros look good but are fake. 

[swood1]

Why not go for a Blaupunkt Frankfurt that was a common dealer mounted unit in Europe at that time,

Hi Scott,

Why don't you get your money back and go for the Blaupunkt Frankfurt and keep circa £500 in your pocket for other things.


Steve

[scoot]

Why don't you get your money back and go for the Blaupunkt Frankfurt and keep circa £500 in your pocket for other things.

It's a personal preference thing.  I find the Becker to be much more attractive.  My 67 250SL had a Blaupunkt Frankfurt that I removed and replaced with a Europa TR just because I liked the appearance better.

[Scottcorvette]

Hi Scott,

Why don't you get your money back and go for the Blaupunkt Frankfurt and keep circa £500 in your pocket for other things.


Steve

I prefer the look of the Becker to the Blaupunkt. It seems to fit the styling of the dash a bit better I think. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I really do wish I'd just stuck with the delete plate idea, although no doubt that would have thrown up one or two issues. Besides £500 doesn't seem to go very far with Mercedes-Benz!

Konig have said they will replace it with a TR. For what its worth the radio they have sent me does look very pretty and Im sure would have looked lovely in the dash so hopefully the replacement will be spot on.

[Scottcorvette]

This is the replacement Europa TR. Looks very nice to me. I have to give my approval before it is shipped.

So is this the real deal or not?

[DaveB]

It looks nice but I don't think it's a 230SL model, because the chrome surround is rounded not angular.

[scoot]

I agree somewhat with Dave.  Technically the radio should have a beveled bezel rather than a rounded bezel but the bezel is a completely independent part from the radio.  It is possible that the bezel is reproduction (which is fine with me - the reproduction one that I have is excellent).  If that bothers you though ask about it now.

Note that the volume knob has a little bit of shaft exposed between the knob and the chrome bezel of the face plate.  That is not a mistake - the volume knob is a two position slide in / out shaft to control tone high / low.

It looks really nice to me and I don't see anything about the radio or amp that I can say is incorrect other than above comment about bezel.

[rgafitanu@gmail.com]

This Europa TR is exactly like my original Europa TR in my 67' 250SE.

[Scottcorvette]

The replacement radio has arrived and certainly looks very nice, to my untrained eye anyway. I emailed Konigs about the bezel and they swapped it for the beveled type, so hopefully I now have what the well heeled music lover could have picked when the car was new...

I haven't hooked it up to power to see that it actually works,Im assuming it does but I may hook it up and bench test it in the near future. The finish is exactly what I would hope for, the bezel and knobs etc are repro for sure but Im ok with that. I think it will look a million bucks in the dash when the car is all finished, although still a long way away.

My next question is how do I mount the amp? I had a look in the tech manual and the mount instructions are in there in German. Im assuming it uses the square hole in the middle of the firewall in the picture, with a captive cage nut like the steering column has. I don't suppose anyone has a copy of those instructions in English??

I guess I also need to find all the clips etc for cabling. I had the little auxiliary fusebox in my car but it was mounted near the brake booster, not near the voltage regulator.

Thanks again to everyone for their guidance with this, I would have been mighty upset if the other radio had been installed then to find out it was incorrect.

[66andBlue]

Scott,
these two pictures in the tech manual showed show you how to mount the bracket on the firewall.
Your firewall looks a bit different than the one in the manual. My 1966 230SL was more flat and I could just insert a cage nut in the center of the square hole to mount the bracket as shown. Put the bracket over the hole and see how it matches up.Also not that the installation instruction is in German and English.

[DaveB]

It looks great! I think all 230SL have the radio fuse near the booster like yours.

[Jordan]

Scott, here is a picture of my Europa TR amp mounted under the dash. For some reason it is posting the photo upside down.