Bonnet fixing points on inner flitch panels

[swood1]

Hi all,

For some reason on my lhs flitch panel I have tapped holes for the bonnet hinge bracket fixings.  On the rhs flitch panel I have two threaded bolts sticking out. I can tell the wings have been off this vehicle before.  I am basically replacing the flitch panels and was just wondering which side was correct.  Can anyone advise?



Regards

Steven

[dirkbalter]

Hi Steven,
Some pictures would help to understand the issue better.

[swood1]

hope this works.

[dirkbalter]

Steven,
Your first picture is correct. (11000026) A rectangular plate appox. 6 mm thick containing the female M6 threads is tagged to the inner fender from the wheel well side. You can see the plate from the wheel well side. The upper fender support frame lays on top of it and is cut out in that area.

If questions, I can post pictures later.

Hope that helps   
Dirk

[doitwright]

Steven,

The front hood (bonnet) hinge area has been known to have other issues also. In your case, the photo with the threaded studs is likely the result of a previously rusted area and a quick fix. The other area that Gernold at SL Tech would probably advise you to do while you are at it, is open the metal where the floating nuts on the hood (bonnet) are contained and insert his custom reinforced "nut cage". His claim is that eventually the metal on the hood (bonnet) fatigues from opening and closing (and rusty non lubricated hinge pivots) and detaches from the hinge. Similar to what likely happened when the hinge broke loose from the body. It is likely the metal on your hood has already experienced some of this fatigue. If you are looking to do a repaint, that would be the time to do this job.

[dirkbalter]

Here are the pics of the nut-plate.

[swood1]

Dirk,

Thanks for this.  Out of interest do you know what the slot is for in the centre of the plate?  I assume if you have welded that plate slightly out you can accommodate it within the bracket for the hinge?

Out of interest in your photos are you replacing the inner wings/flitch panels?  Do you have any photos showing the firewall end? I am currently removing these panels on my car.   



Regards

Steven

[swood1]

Steven,

 is open the metal where the floating nuts on the hood (bonnet) are contained and insert his custom reinforced "nut cage".

Hi Frank,

You are correct, part of the restoration will include repainting once I have resolved all the bodges from the previous owner/shop and removed all the rust etc.  Can I ask are these floating nuts on the bonnet for the corresponding hinge fixings that affix to the ones on the flitch panel hinges?  Where do I get the custom reinforced nut cages from?  I have no problem with including these.


Regards

Steven

[doitwright]

Gernolds kit is intended for the hood (bonnet). http://www.sltechw113.com/parts.html
1st item on top of the page.

[dirkbalter]

Steven,
I don’t think the slot it used for anything. I am guessing it had some function during the initial assembly. May be someone knows.
I am not sure I understand what you mean by “welded the plate slightly out….” .
I made myself set-up jigs prior to cutting the original panels in order to have good reference points and find the right location later. You can see that in my pic 0036.
I will post some pictures regarding the fire-wall end later. You may recall that we had a discussion as to whether it possible to replace the inner fenders without removing the outer ones?

Dirk

[waltklatt]

The plate in the picture with the micrometer scale is correct for the fender mount.
The one for Gernold is inside the hood itself.
The plate on the fender has to be installed in the correct position and welded.
The adjustment comes from the bolt openings on the hinge attachment for the hood pivot.
From the looks of your pictures Steven, there are various weld lines and ripples in the metal, indicates that they were repaired.
Hopefully you are able to repair your panels or replace them with new parts.

And the slot is probably for the assembly line when adjusting the hood or something with a special tool inserted.

Brgrds,
Walter

[dirkbalter]

Pawel,
I don't think that's what we are talking about. 

[Pawel66]

ok

[Benz Dr.]

Wouldn't the mounting plate on the inner fender be set up for some amount of up and down movement? How else would you adjust the hood for height?

 While fore and aft or side to side is set up from the hinge on the hood. Either that, or I'm missing something.

[dirkbalter]

Dan,
I believe the hood height adjustment is done with the hood hinges. The plates were welded to the inner fenders.

[swood1]

Hi Walter,

Thanks for your response and you are spot on.  The inner wings or flitch panels have been repaired (badly).  My plan is to replace one panel at a time.  I have bought original MB replacement panels which should put me in a good position.   Outer wing is now off the car (and has been off before looking at it), but before I remove inner wing I just want to ensure I dont lose any datums. 

Dr Benz,

I believe you are correct but the up and down movement is catered for on the bracket that attaches to the flitch panels.  I attach photo which I think explains it.  It's the front to back position I am more concerned about. 

My plan is to make a simple fixture, just need to think of the easiest way of doing this.Shall post some photos for feedback once I get to that position. 

Dirk in your photos it looks like you are replacing the whole front end of the vehicle.... I am not that brave.


Steve

[Benz Dr.]

Ah yes, now I remember. I knew the fixed part of the hinge moved up and down - just didn't remember how.

[dirkbalter]

Steve,
It didn’t start out that way. The car didn’t seem to be all that bad. After all the paint was off, and even though expecting some problems, it was quite a surprise. I am not a big fan of patch panels everywhere. So, I bit the bullet and try to do the best I can to get it back to full strength and glory.
As mentioned earlier, I am attaching a couple of pics regarding to inner fender / fire wall that might help.
(Btw, my first car that I took apart and restored twenty some years ago was a TR4. Loved the car. A true roadster.)

[swood1]

Hi Dirk,

I like your fixturing, I shall try to get to a steel stockholder later this week as shall do something similar.  Although I dont believe I need to built mine to the same level as yours as I am not removing the front end of my car (at the moment).

It looks like you are using a spot welder on the inner fenders.  Is this a standard spot welder? 


The Triumph is a lovely little car... hard to compare the two to be honest.  Both lovely in their own ways.

I hope admin doesnt delete my photo


Steve

[dirkbalter]

Beautiful. That brings back good memories. Believe it or not, mine was the same color as well. If memory serves me right, it’s called Royal Navy Blue.

Anyway,
No, I am using a regular (Miller) mic welder. The spots on the inner fender is the burn thru from the welds of the upper fender support frames. I welded them from the other side by punching (1/4) holes in one of the panels (support frames) and mic welding the panels by closing the holes basically. They do however look a bit like the original spot welds and that’s what I am going for. But I am faking it, lol.
You probably know that, but I would just tag all the panels in place, put the hood in place…., and verify that everything lines up, your gaps are good…. before completely welding a panel.

Good luck

[swood1]

Hi Dirk,

Out of interest can you advise the best/easiest way of removing the outer front wings?  The previous owner of my car had cut them off across from the corner of the bonnet to the wheel arch.  I just cut the old weld but this leaves the very top part of the wing still in situ, it would be nice to remove this as I would like to check and possibly replace some of the panels behind.

I have managed to brace the front of the car with a frame and a bracket for the bonnet hinge.




Regards

Steven

[dirkbalter]

Hi Steven,
In my case, I did not re-use my front fenders. They were bad in the lower part as well as around the head light buckets. I bought new ones from SLS and used these as a template to find the cut lines for removing the old ones. I drilled the spot welds along the inner fenders, the welds in the door opening, along the front mask and eventually along the top front window area.
If you plan on installing new fenders, I would get them before you cut the old ones out. That will give you a good idea on what and where to cut.
The transition between the fender in the front window area is factory patched or filled in with lead that you have to remove first.
Dirk

[dirkbalter]

Steven,
In addition, if you look at my center picture above you see the lead area where the original fender ended. In the lower picture you can see where I welded the new one. That worked out well for me since I had some corrosion in the window seal area.  My point, the original and aftermarket may be different.
Since the aftermarket fenders were significantly cheaper, I tried to save some money and went with SLS. I also bought the ones with the headlight buckets already welded in. That was a mistake. The fender itself was good but the craftsmanship on the headlight bucket weldment to the fender was poor and needed quiet some rework. 
Hope that helps.

[swood1]

Hi Dirk,

Thanks for this.  My front wings are in good condition and are original so my intention was to retain these.  It's just a shame the wings were cut at the wrong position.  From your photos it looks like the join started close to the radius/corner of the bonnet.  I shall need to investigate more when I next get into the shop.

Steve

[swood1]

Hi all,

Couple of queries on from my original post.  Firstly, to try to get the best alignment I bought an OEM inner flitch panel for my car.  I have done all the local bodywork repairs and went to pop the inner flitch panel in place but it doesn't quite align with the fixing points for the bonnet, it's as though the original holes were out (by approx. 5-8 mm).  First thought would be to jiggle the panel around to get it to fit but it fits between the front end and the bulkhead perfectly so there is no where to go on adjustment.

I bought this vehicle as a project, there was a number of repairs (the wings had been removed before and part the inner wing had been replaced/repaired), I am just wondering if it's more likely that the panel wasn't put back in the correct position previously and that's why previous owner gave up with the restoration.   Surely the holes on the new inner wing must be in the right place if it's an OEM part..   I am regularly trying the bonnet on the car to ensure constant gaps etc.

Secondly, I am re-using the strut tower.  Do I weld the strut tower to the inner flitch panel prior to welding to the main body?  I can see the depressions in the flitch panel for the strut tower.  There is also a small depression within the structural leg on the body.



Regards

Steven