Starting a 280SL restoration

[mchoi]

Hello everyone,

As I said in my new member introductions post, I was going to post some pictures of my 1970 280SL that I want to begin restoring.

Attached are 4 pictures:
a 3/4 shot from the front passenger corner
an interior picture
2 engine bay pictures from either side

From the 3/4 picture, you can see 2 small rust spots in the front middle of the car.

The interior wood is in bad shape and will need full replacement.  I guess this is expected for a car this old.  The dash is in pretty good condition, with only a small crack which can't be seen in the picture.  The seats are in good condition.  Carpet is ehh.  Some rust in the floorboard (also expected?).  A previous owner installed a speaker system which I want to remove.

The engine bay pictures show how dirty it is.  Should be interesting to clean and dismantle this thing.

The engine hasn't been started in a 3 years, so I'm wary about starting it.  I was leaning towards just disassembling it, cleaning it out and doing whatever rebuild is required, but in the introduction thread, Mike H suggested that I try to get it running first so I can enjoy it for a bit, which admittedly sounds pretty nice.  I'm open to additional opinions, if anyone would like to provide any.
I sent the car to a shop a few yrs back and they did compression and leak down tests on it.  I'd like to repeat these tests, but the results are below:
leak down 1-6 sequentially - 46%, 83%, 10%, 42%, 76%, 44%
compression #6 = 130 lb (by far the lowest), rest of cylinders 142-155 lbs
The 83% and 76% are pretty concerning to me.  Not sure what could be causing it at the moment.
The compression scores are ?pretty good?

What do you all think?

[johnk]

The other advantage of driving it a while before you tear it apart is you learn what else needs be adressed in the restoration.

[Benz Dr.]

I agree. Knowing what was working and how well it works is a lot of information you would loose. It might be a completely driveable car with a bit of work. Three years is long enough to have some brake problems and possible fuel related problems but it shouldn't hurt your engine over much.

[Cees Klumper]

I would also get it going and drive it steadily for some time, and only then redo the compression etc tests. Chances are you will not get accurate readings now.

[lurtch]

I agree with all of the above opinions. That being said there is another caveat to consider:

If you are going to do a "complete restoration" you are going to be investing 30K - 40K, so you better convince yourself that you really love the car first! 

If not you might lose interest somewhere along the way - -

Larry In CA

[Benz Dr.]

I agree with all of the above opinions. That being said there is another caveat to consider:

If you are going to do a "complete restoration" you are going to be investing 30K - 40K, so you better convince yourself that you really love the car first! 

If not you might lose interest somewhere along the way - -

Larry In CA

30 - 40K?   Better double that amount if you want to do everything right.

One of the biggest mistakes I see owners do is to take apart a half decent driver with the intent of doing a full restoration. Too many things can happen along the way to derail those intentions even if you're committed to finishing your car. My advice is to never start a project unless you have the ability and cash to see it through.

My mantra is: Start with the end in mind.

[specracer]

GET it running. Enjoy the car 1st. As mentioned a "full" restoration is a long expensive project, and you might wind up with a car too beautiful to drive (worrying about maintaining the "investment"). Drive it and not worry. After, as also mentioned, you can see what issues might really need to be addressed, and create a plan, which might very well be the "full resto". You will have a much better idea on the correct direction for you (and your wallet).

I have had our car for a year and a half. I had to do a lot just to get it running.  Interior was tattered beyond enjoyment (all done, now). So thats where I am so far. Car finally runs, was tuned and calibrated last week. I can finally drive it. I have not even washed the exterior yet. Now just have to wait for New England spring. Point is, now I can drive it to figure out next step, after a summer of driving.

[Alex D]

It's called a rolling restoration, roll (drive) in the spring, summer, restore in the winter.  You get to enjoy and do a little work in the winter months, takes a bit longer but worth it, for me it was and still is.

[Bonnyboy]

I echo the comments about a rolling restoration.  By far my choice if you want to drive the car anytime soon. 

Rolling restoration:   11 years ago I had finally saved up enough to purchase my Dad's pagoda.  Then three yrs later I picked it up and placed it in my new garage with just enough room to start playing with my new toy.   My car was a non runner and with lots of advice from Benz Dr. and this forum I got the car on the road and didn't break anything major.   Once on the road I drove it gently for the summer and then went nuts during the next winter attacking rusted sheet metal, replacing rubber components and becoming acquainted with every bit of the car.   In the spring I drove it again and this time drove it real hard (rallies and a couple slaloms) and then made a big list of things to fix.  And so the pattern went for a couple more years and this year I never put it away for the winter because the car is just so much fun to drive.  The thought of putting it away for 2-3 yrs to do a restoration would drive me nuts.  I have amassed a large pile of items to replace on the car but there is nothing serious enough to put the car up for a couple months.

Take it all apart restoration:  On the other hand I took apart my MGB around the same time for restoration and it is in a condition where it won't be driven soon.   It is so far from being driven that I sort of lost interest.  I sure wish I did a rolling restoration on that one as I haven't driven that car for 10 yrs and it doesn't seem to get any closer to finishing because I bit off more than I can chew.  Someday I will finish it but it means I can't enjoy it in the mean time.   

My other advice to you is.. if you are going to do the work yourself ... to get a hoist (I have a mid rise scissor hoist) so you can get under the car easily.  And fit out your shop appropriately with tools and enough fire extinguishers so you can quickly kill a fire anywhere it could happen in your garage. 

Working on cars is so much more enjoyable when you have the tools.   I even drag my hoist outside after a "good run" to lift the car up in the air so I can clean the underneath properly with compressed air and a rag and be able to investigate that "clunk" I heard when I hit the railway tracks.   

[Benz Dr.]

The real caveat here is to have a car good enough to be able to do a rolling restoration. If you buy a basket case then starting right away makes sense and your car looks far better than that.

[MikeSimon]

The real caveat here is to have a car good enough to be able to do a rolling restoration. If you buy a basket case then starting right away makes sense and your car looks far better than that.

" A car good enough" - is a very personal criterion. Especially with Vintage cars. As long as we are talking solid floor and not rusted out shells, our SLs can sell from anywhere between 35K to 150K. For some a 35k car may be a "basket case" for others it is a "good enough" car. For some a 150K car may be "good enough" and for others it is an "excellent" car.

[Benz Dr.]

" A car good enough" - is a very personal criterion. Especially with Vintage cars. As long as we are talking solid floor and not rusted out shells, our SLs can sell from anywhere between 35K to 150K. For some a 35k car may be a "basket case" for others it is a "good enough" car. For some a 150K car may be "good enough" and for others it is an "excellent" car.

No kidding. Ever try to figure out what a right car is? To some, a paint job is a restored car, and to others you better have the inside of the transmission tunnel painted in the correct stone gray primer or they won't look at it.
Once I explain what a number 3 car is then I usually see a light come on. Same with Full Classic cars and Milestone cars. It's not enough to know about your own car, you should want to know a bit about automotive history too.

[pj]

I'm just one more voice in favour of driving it. When we got our 230SL, Dan fixed the engine for us and the car was such great fun to drive from 2011 to 2014. Of course it depends on your personal interests and resources. Be prepared to spend a lot more than you think, and then even more than that.

[Benz Dr.]

I'm just one more voice in favour of driving it. When we got our 230SL, Dan fixed the engine for us and the car was such great fun to drive from 2011 to 2014. Of course it depends on your personal interests and resources. Be prepared to spend a lot more than you think, and then even more than that.

Peter, hope you can make it to Shelley's surprise birthday party in mid April. You only turn 60 once.

[mchoi]

Thank you everyone for your replies.

It looks like it's unanimously in favor of a rolling restoration.  And yes, the car is not a basketcase; there's not too much rust.

I'm thinking I should start with the fuel system.  Maybe get it cleaned out and pump in some fresh gas.  Then try manually turning the engine?  Do you think there's any risk of rust inside the cylinders?

There was a suggestion to try and get a lift.  That sounds like a good idea, but maybe more of a longer term purchase.  It'll certainly make work easier.

I'm traveling for work right now, but Friday/Saturday I'll post some more pictures.  Let me know if there's anything in particular you'd want to see.

[Benz Dr.]

I would pull all of your spark plugs, squirt some oil into each cylinder, and try to turn it over by hand if you can. Barring that, I guess you could use the starter. Remove fuse number 4 so your fuel pump won't run.  Once you have full oil pressure then you can start trying to add fuel and see if you can get it to fire. Replace the fuse and spark plugs of course.

[Mike Hughes]

I'd drain the fuel tank and refill with 3-5 gallons of fresh premium 93 octane fuel. Next drain the old oil and refill with fresh oil. Then I'd change out the fuel filter cartridge on the side of the engine down below the Injection Pump, and also the adjacent oil filter cartridge.  Be sure to obtain and fit the special rubber oil filter seal when installing the new filter.  Finally smear just a thin coat of grease on the lobes of the distributor cam - just enough to wet the surface of the lobes, don't goop it up!  Once you have fresh fluids and filters you can proceed to wake-up your engine from it's slumber.  Be sure to spin the engine with the spark plugs out and fuel pump fuse removed until you have good oil pressure, then plug in the fuse and check to hear the fuel pump working and let it circulate fuel for a minute or so before replacing the plugs and trying to fire the engine up.  If the engine was last running as little as three years ago it should start with little difficulty.

You'll find plenty of advice on the forum as you progress with re-commissioning your Pagoda.

[specracer]

While you have the fuel system drained, consider an additional inline fuel filter from the tank to the inlet of the fuel pump. Cheap insurance if your tank is a bit funky, and if any small debris makes it through the tank screen (which you will be able to inspect when you  drain the tank)

[pj]

How does one manually turn an engine? What's that mean?

[MikeSimon]

You put a 28mm socket on an extension and put it on the nut on the crankshaft pulley and turn!

[mbzse]

.../...put it on the nut on the crankshaft pulley and turn!

Yes, absolutely do not use the hex bolt on the end of the camshaft!

[Benz Dr.]

You put a 27mm socket on an extension and put it on the nut on the crankshaft pulley and turn!