Brake master cylinder dead...

[Ulf]

Hi, just a quick question - the car is at the workshop with my mechanic who just called to say that my brake master cylinder needs to be replaced. But my car is a 1964 230SL and the 3-ported cylinder for this (see link to SLS) is not readily available - all I can find is the later one for 250/280SL (believe it's ATE), will a later one fit my car?
https://www.sls-hh-shop.de/main/en/mercedes-230-280sl-w113-/42-brakes/43-mastercylinder/master-cylinder-230sl-lhd-from-08143-p-5003

Br

Ulf

[Jowe]

Here you have it for the 230: https://www.mbclassics.de/ATE-brake-master-cylinder-W110220seb230SL

[Ulf]

Thanks, but there are plenty of those around - they are ATE for later cars (late 230, 250 and 280 as far as I'm aware) although plenty of vendors list them as fitting the early 230's as well, that's why I'm asking whether these will fit :-)
Mine has 3 outlets and matches the one in the link to SLS which is not available from them.

[Shvegel]

Ulf,
I am GUESSING you are OK as long as the replacement cylinder has the hex fitting on the rearward boss.  That is a valve that holds a slight pressure in the line for drum brake cars only.  The newer cylinders with disc brakes will not have that.  Using a later cylinder on an earlier car can cause a soft pedal and using an early cylinder on a late car can cause the rear disc brakes to drag.  Unfortunately I do not have a drum brake car so I cannot verify dimensions.

[WRe]

Hi,
Here you find the official web catalogue of ATE with the correct part numbers: http://ows-cdn.tecdoc.net/ate/home.jsp?server=8&time=23/4/2019-8:30:34#ea5a4dd72db1ab0163d659f0940e7e06.
Here you can find available vendors: https://www.daparto.de/Teilenummernsuche/ATE/03212306093?kbaTypeId=886.
I hope this will help you.
...WRe

[Ulf]

@Shvegel - you mention dragging brakes, which is exactly why I asked my mechanic to look into it, but it's my front brakes (discs) that drags while there is zero braking power to the rear (drums) - could there be a correlation?

[Ulf]

@WRe - thanks, I will look into that :-)

[Ulf]

Apart from the angle of the photos, they look identical to me - the one on the left is from ATE's web catalogue (thanks WRe) and came up after punching in my car data (1964 230SL) and they state that it was used until dec 1965, the one on the right is the one from SLS. I can't tell the difference...

Br

Ulf

[Pawel66]

@Shvegel - you mention dragging brakes, which is exactly why I asked my mechanic to look into it, but it's my front brakes (discs) that drags while there is zero braking power to the rear (drums) - could there be a correlation?

Sorry - just for my learning - is it not the topic about brake power distributor? Or the distributor in 230SL did not perform a similar role as brake power regulator in later cars?

By the way, the master cylinder for 113042, as per EPC, is available from MB. It has part number

A 001 430 63 01
replaced by
A 001 430 63 01 64

With notes:
ID 000 As of ident. no.: 042 008144
ID 001 As of ident. no.: 042 007972

I am not sure what is the difference between ID 000 and ID 001 (markets? LHD/RHD?).

Before the above chassis numbers the part number was:

A 001 430 52 01

replaced by

A 001 430 63 01 with A 000 997 50 30 (this part EPC does not recognize, but I found it below)

Just in case it is not available from other vendors as per WRe post (you would get it for half of the price probably from other vendors) or to confirm part number (other vendors may use OEM numbers as well).


Here is another quote, but the footnote and part number are mixed:
https://www.niemoeller.de/en/w113/w113/B042/424/d42521

When I search PN A 001 430 52 01 in one of the biggest Polish vendors I get ATE 03.2123-0609.3; TEXTAR 33039100; VALEO 402156; HELLA 8AM 355 502-731
When I search PN A 001 430 63 01 I get ATE 03.2123-0609.3; TEXTAR 33039100; HELLA 8AM 355 502-731 (same, no Valeo listed)

When I do search of the unknown part A 000 997 50 30, I get "Cover bolt, master cylinder. p/n ATE 03.3517-0101.2" M10x1, length 7.5mm, total length 12.5mm

I see that these two MB numbers are for the same item of ATE and other manufacturers as per their catalogues. In the EPC the difference is that bolt described above.

That is what I found.

[Benz Dr.]

The brake force regulator and residual pressure valve are not anything close to the same part or function. Residual pressure for rear brake drums would only be 7 or 8 PSI and shouldn't be enough to make your rear discs drag. If that were so, then the brake shoes would drag as well. Totally different return springs and hardware but brake pressure is brake pressure.

I have an early 230SL MC in my car that has disc brakes and a regulator installed. Brakes seem to work OK.

[Pawel66]

Thank you!

[Ulf]

Just to let you know - the part fits! But now we've discovered that the rear brake lines are severely worn, but I'll post a new thread for that. Thanks for all your help :-)

Happy motoring to all of you!

U

[Cees Klumper]

Front brakes dragging can be caused by worn (internally swollen and thus constricted) rubber brake hoses. The pressure when applying the brakes forces the fluid through them, but won't flow back when pressure is released, causing the drag.

[Ulf]

Cees - true, as you can see, these were far beyond their life span. New ones are ordered and on their way :-)