Author Topic: Head gasket and timing chain questions  (Read 2434 times)

snowyt 69

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Head gasket and timing chain questions
« on: September 29, 2019, 14:04:45 »
Hello everyone.
After ten years of ownership and basically trouble free driving, my '69 280 SL blew the head gasket after a spirited drive on the local freeway. I removed the head, had it gently planed, replaced the gasket and put the engine back together. It was my understanding that they were not a lot of miles on the motor owing to a recent rebuild when I bought it, and I have not put a significant amount of mileage on in my time of ownership. The car has always run beautifully, so I didn't do the valves or the guides, just the head gasket.
When I started the car it ran nice and quietly at idle, but as soon as I revved it up a noticeable clatter started in the engine. It sounded like valve clatter, and when it did not just go away like it was supposed to I turned the engine off, let it cool overnight, and adjusted the valves again. This did not take the clatter away. I checked all the valve springs for cracks or breaks and did not find any. I checked to make sure that the TDC marks on the crankshaft, cam and distributor were still lined up, and they are.
After a great deal of head scratching and what not I finally determined that I had play in the timing chain at the tensioner sprocket. I removed the tensioner to see if I had assembled it incorrectly but I had not. However, even fully extended it is not taking up all the play in the tensioner arm. There is not a lot, perhaps the thickness of a thin slot headed screwdriver, but obviously any is too much. When I move the tensioner arm and  sprocket back and forth with my fingers I can hear an audible metallic clicking that I suspect is the sound I'm hearing when the engine is running.
All of this leads me to believe that I need to replace the timing chain. This in itself doesn't seem that daunting a task, but then I get reading about cam shaft shims and all sorts of horror stories that neophytes like myself have unwitting launched upon themselves, so I am simply asking those who have been there before is the timing chain the likely culprit in my case? Should I measure anything? Count anything? Is there a timing chain God that I should pray too? I realize all of these inquiries might be a little bit like closing the barn door after the horses have fled, but such is the place I find myself in.
I'll answer a couple of obvious questions.
I did not overheat the engine before the head gasket let loose.
The head was not warped. It felt smooth to my touch but the aluminum was not mirror like shiny.
I have driven the car since re-installing the head and the noise if anything gets quieter under load. The head is sealed and the oil and coolant are not mixing. I have gotten it hot enough to torque the head to the final specifications.
I can easily answer any other questions that anyone might have.
Any and all advise would be greatly welcomed at this point.
Michael

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Re: Head gasket and timing chain questions
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2019, 14:17:12 »
Hi Micheal,
Have you bled the chain tensioner?  The tensioner is situated in a cavity which should be filled with oil. The tensioner should then be moved by hand in order to bleed all the air out of the system.
Regards
Chris
28 Ford Model A Pickup
29 Chevy Phaeton
67 E Type FHC
67 250SL 5 speed
83 911SC
2015 VW T5 California Pop Top

ja17

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Re: Head gasket and timing chain questions
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2019, 14:44:57 »
Yes good advice from Chris. make sure that the tensioner fills with oil or it will not take up chain slack correctly. When it is bled and working correctly, it should be very firm. Include a head bolt re-retorque every 12K to 15K miles in your maintenance schedule and your head gasket should last this time.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
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Shvegel

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Re: Head gasket and timing chain questions
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2019, 17:24:29 »
If you ovrtighten the bolts that hold the valve cover on the brackets under the cover will suck in and hit the camshaft.

Cees Klumper

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Re: Head gasket and timing chain questions
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2019, 01:45:00 »
X2 on the valve cover towers/brackets twisting and touching the camshaft.
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
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1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
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snowyt 69

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Re: Head gasket and timing chain questions
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2019, 13:33:30 »
Many thanks for you prompt and helpful replies.
I did not bleed the timing chain tensioner when I first re-installed it. The manual I was using made no mention of this step. When I read up on the procedure on this forum (post engine clatter alas), I attempted to bleed the tensioner, but this was after the engine had been run several times. I could not get the piston to compress. Perhaps I was not exerting enough force, but I was uncertain how much was too much and I was afraid of breaking something. I subsequently removed the tensioner and disassembled it to make certain it wasn't jammed and that I had put it together correctly in the first place. The tensioner was properly assembled, and the piston moves freely and the vent hole is not clogged with any debris.
I will re-install the tensioner and fill the galley with oil. Will I be able to bleed the tensioner by depressing the tensioner arm with my thumbs, or will it require more force than that? Once I have gotten it all bled out, does it make sense to turn the engine over a couple of revolutions by hand to settle the timing chain into a proper configuration, or is this unnecessary?
In any case, this seems the next logical step. I will carry this out and let you know the results. It might take me a couple of days before I get at it, but I appreciate your swift replies.
Shvegel. I checked for bent brackets as well. I think you'd need to be pretty heavy handed to bend those, but obviously it has been done. Thankfully this wasn't one of my mistakes.
I'll keep you posted on how it goes.
Michael

Pawel66

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Re: Head gasket and timing chain questions
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2019, 15:20:12 »
Sorry to jump in - just for my knowledge: when I was going through a very similar exercise, I was instructed to prime the tensioner during installation and pre-pump it a bit with a big flat screwdriver pressing on the chain so that it is stiff. After that it is performing the pumping action as the chain moves so it presses on the chain quite hard, but priming was necessary.

ja17 writes: "make sure that the tensioner fills with oil or it will not take up chain slack correctly". This was written to me, I remember, as well.

I probably misunderstood something with the bleeding you mentioned as I thougth bleeding is about letting liquid out of somewhere.
Pawel

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MikeSimon

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Re: Head gasket and timing chain questions
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2019, 17:09:18 »
 ;D ;D ;D You are right, Pawel - as long as you are in a hospital. There "bleeding' would usually mean letting a fluid out of somewhere/something. When you work with vehicles, it is usually letting air out of a system, i.e: bleeding the brakes, bleeding the power steering and bleeding the cam chain tensioner.... Any hydraulic system needs to be void of air to function properly 8) 8)
1970/71 280SL Automatic
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Pawel66

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Re: Head gasket and timing chain questions
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2019, 09:24:13 »
Ok. Indeed  :) :) :) :)
Or when your Madame goes for shopping...

Sorry...

I was probably missing "bleed air" or "air bleed" - which was obvious in this case.

Thanks!
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

snowyt 69

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Re: Head gasket and timing chain questions
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2019, 02:33:43 »
Hello everyone.
I am pleased to report that my timing chain tensioner bleed out went smoothly and as described. I filled the galley with clean oil and watched the air escaping as I compressed the piston to make certain I was doing the procedure correctly. Two complete depressions of the piston was all it took, and then I could not move it any further. I put the valve cover back on, hooked up the linkages, fired her up and she ran quietly and beautifully. Today I took her for an hour long run up the highway and it was a tremendously satisfying drive.
Thank you all for your knowledgeable and prompt advice. They next time I am scratching my head I'll know where to turn to first.
Cheers.
Michael

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Re: Head gasket and timing chain questions
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2019, 09:59:43 »
Well done.
I am pleased you got it sorted.
Regards
Chris
Cape Town
28 Ford Model A Pickup
29 Chevy Phaeton
67 E Type FHC
67 250SL 5 speed
83 911SC
2015 VW T5 California Pop Top