The Stirling Moss Pagoda

[Mike Hughes]

...I would suggest trying to get in contact with Sir Sterling Moss and asking about the modifications...

.. and I would second that, sooner than later!  Given your family's past history with him I should think that he would be a more than willing fountain of information about your Pagoda's modifications and special features.

As far as getting in contact, perhaps the editors of one of the British car magazines, such as Classic & Sports Car or Mercedes Enthusiast might be in a position to reach out to arrange an intro.

[Shvegel]

I bet Mercedes wold be willing to get involved.  "Long lost Pagoda built for racing legend Stirling Moss found!"  It would make a great article for the Mercedes club magazines around the world.

I also noticed on the data card the engine number listed began with 127 which is a 230 engine.  since your's begins with 129 which is a 250 engine it may have been slated to receive the 230 engine but was then changed after the data card was printed or even more likely it was fitted by special workers and the original 230 engine removed.  I doubt Mercedes would want to stop the production line to sort out any minor differences in fitment of the 250 engine so it would most likely have been built with the 230 engine then changed later. The plot thickens.

[MikeSimon]

If I would have known earlier, I could have asked him a few questions last time we met him...

[robbo65]

Firstly, I'd like to say how infinitely reassuring it is to (literally) have you all on the same page!

Interestingly, Stirling Moss or his PA at least, was my first port of call in 2012 when Sarah first inherited the car.
Maybe we just caught him on a bad day but at the the time he seemed only vaguely familiar with the car.
In fairness at that time, we had dug out little in the way of supporting documentation, erroneously assuming he was bound to remember the car!
It was probably his vague reply at that time, that led us to assume that perhaps we had the story wrong.
I have written to him again, enclosing some of the period photographs kindly shared here, so hopefully this time his memory will be sufficiently jogged.

I have also been in touch with Stuttgart in the hope that they will show some interest.

As ever, will keep you posted...

[stickandrudderman]

I'll bet others on the site who have not seen this would be very interested. They might not look at this string thinking ... "someone else can help this guy with his Data Card".
But, if you start a new string titled something like "Stirling Moss' 230 SL" many others will look and possibly give you more information.
Very interesting car. Thank you for sharing.
"Enjoy the ride",
Mark

You said it!

What a fascinating car!

[Mike Hughes]

It is known that Sir Stirling took delivery of a 250 SL and then promptly dropped a 280 sedan engine in it just months prior to Mercedes bringing the 280SL to market.  Perhaps, in an earlier quest for more performance, the 250 sedan engine in your 230SL is evidence he tried a similar upgrade before?

[Iconic]

Thanks Stick !!

[Shvegel]

found this quote about the Pagoda: "In all the years I have been driving, I cannot remember ever driving a car that I would have liked to own more (except for racing cars!)". (Sir Stirling Moss in a letter to the racing director Alfred Neubauer.)

[robbo65]

Saw that quote too Schvegel - the letter must’ve landed on the right desk!

[robbo65]

Question for a Page Admin if I may...

A couple of people have suggested a new thread, specific to the fact the car has been identified as the "Stirling Moss Car" - is it possible to link via this thread? It seems a shame to lose all the comments made on this thread!
Whichever way you think is best to migrate all the current information is fine with me.

Thanks again,
Ian

[Mike Hughes]

Following up on Ian's inquiry, is it possible for Admin to edit the topic header to read "Stirling Moss Car" instead of "Can't find Chassis Number in the Data Card Section???"

It looks like I can change the subject line in this reply I'm about to post, but I doubt this will change the whole thread.

[Garry]

Have re titled the post for you so it all remains.


Garry
car and self currently in Maine heading to Pagodafest.
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=28366.0

[robbo65]

Excellent!
Thank you for re-titling the thread...

[Peter van Es]

Have re titled the post for you so it all remains.

And I did it again, now applying to all posts for the search engine... 

[Mike Hughes]

Thanks guys!  This is a truly International group: A post about a RHD Pagoda originally delivered to a British race car driver, which Pagoda's current owner resides in Ireland, is modified by an Admin from Australia touring in his RHD Pagoda through Maine and then tweaked by another Admin in The Netherlands!  ;^)

[Peter van Es]

...it's how we roll...

[robbo65]

So...
Would anyone like to hazard a guess as to what this automobile might be worth?
We are in the process of moving house/country and the car will have to go into storage.
The car is in good original condition. It hasn’t left the garage since 2003 and the engine was last turned over in 2012 - it started almost immediately!
As far as we can tell, the only thing that isn’t original, is the respray carried out in 1970.
Even for insurance purposes, how do we go about appraising the history aspect, over and above the metal - both obviously being an integral part of the story.
As ever, any guidance would be hugely appreciated.

Cheers,
Ian

[MikeSimon]

So...
Would anyone like to hazard a guess as to what this automobile might be worth?
 
Cheers,
Ian

As another post said : "This is a really international group." My personal experience is that prices for classic cars vary significantly depending on where you are in the world.
We have sold cars to Europe for twice the price that we would get in the U.S. and have brought cars from Europe to the U.S. and sold them here for twice what they would have costed over there.
Very difficult to "hazard a guess". In addition, there is that big factor of running into that one guy that is looking for exactly the car you have for sale.

[Garry]

Then add in the Right Hand Drive factor and the whole mix is not something that can be calculated.


 If you are happy to pay extra for insurance, then maybe take the highest price of a RHD Pagoda that has sold that you can find and insure it for that. Anything else would be a WAG.


What’s it actually worth, we’ll that is up to the market on the day to decide.

[Jordan]

I believe the "Stirling Moss" factor would add to the price.  You could talk to some of the auction houses to see what they say.  If this car went to auction I would expect a collector would snap it up.  If it was mine I would determine what the car was worth if it wasn't associated with Stirling Moss and then double it.  This would just be for insurance purposes.  Insurance is relatively cheap for collector cars and I would want to make sure I was fully covered because you don't know what effect the celebrity status would have on the price if the car went up for sale.

[BaxterBenz]

Would Stirling Moss have actually bought a 230SL with an automatic trans? Seems shocking, unless it was to be driven primarily by his wife, and she couldn't operate a manual. Amazing story in any case.

[robbo65]

Thanks again for the input.
We had arrived at a similar conclusion - estimate car value then double for the Stirling Moss connection.

[robbo65]

Car is now safely tucked away in storage, whilst we continue life’s great adventure, back here in Western Australia.
Thank you all for your invaluable input in this Pagoda journey thus far - if you still want to write about the story, it would be an honour to share the tale as wide and as far as this group seemingly ranges, over land, sea and air...