Old but never ending topic...single stage paint or BC-CC for W113??

[prefervintage]

Hello everyone...I'd appreciate some input from you guys, as this forum has the best people who have done it all with the W113. I've recently brought my '69 280SL into a paint shop for final paint price negotiations. I went to a highly recommended shop with the intent of have my car painted base coat clear coat. I am not a stickler for an original car, so I was hoping for a really high gloss and deep shine. The car was originally a code 050 white, sometime later painted a more arctic white. I've budgeted $10-12K for a strip to metal, multiple coat, with rub out. All chrome is coming off as will doors, windshield, deck lid, and hood, which I'll do myself. I was shocked when the paint shop owner said he would not recommend BC-CC...he recommends, even though it is more work, doing a strip to metal, then lay on 4-5 coats, then rub off one...he said that will produce a better deep luster. That seems strange that could be, since I thought a clear coat would make the paint look wet / shiny, and add depth. What have you guys done? Would a BC-CC look 'off' for this vintage car? Appreciate any thoughts / suggestions. Oh, one final question...was there an MB white brighter than 050, which seems more a cream color to me? Thanks to all...

[scoot]

What did they say about price?

[prefervintage]

$7-8K was estimated, but I was asked to leave the car this weekend for them to go over for the final quote....7-8 means 10, incidentals 'discovered' once painting begins means more like $12K when all is said and done. Environmental regs, plus higher labor costs, higher material costs, etc all mean the price just keeps going up. But given the high value for our cars, the investment is worth it...I'm going to have to be less demanding for a quality paint / expensive job when I get to painting my '70 280SE and my '82 300D next summer...I'll post all pics on my car to the forum with invoices as the process goes so everyone can see how it goes and what the final cost / result turns out.

[scoot]

It's absolutely worth it.  Particularly if you have confidence in the paint shop.

[prefervintage]

Hi scoot...Have you any thoughts on single stage paint rubbed out, or base coat clear coat?

[thelews]

BC-CC is generally glossier than single stage and easier to maintain the shine.  It is out of character on the 113 with respect to how they originally appeared.  Metallics, I believe, would have had clear coat, but I'm not positive.

Generally, to purists, BC-CC is too blingy, reflective and they prefer the less gloss and greater depth of SS.

[Jonny B]

I believe the metallics did have clear coat, and at times it did not work very well. One car out here (original owner) had a silver metallic and it had to be resprayed at least once. The clear coat became what he called "dandruff"

[mdsalemi]

$7-8K was estimated, but I was asked to leave the car this weekend for them to go over for the final quote....7-8 means 10, incidentals 'discovered' once painting begins means more like $12K when all is said and done. Environmental regs, plus higher labor costs, higher material costs, etc all mean the price just keeps going up. But given the high value for our cars, the investment is worth it...I'm going to have to be less demanding for a quality paint / expensive job when I get to painting my '70 280SE and my '82 300D next summer...I'll post all pics on my car to the forum with invoices as the process goes so everyone can see how it goes and what the final cost / result turns out.

FWIW my car was restored and painted about 20 years ago. AT THAT TIME the paint materials alone--no labor--were in the $1,500 price range. That was for the Glasurit branded paints, reducers, primers, etc.

[doitwright]

Whether SS or BC/CC the important thing is to trust the expert who is doing the work. I thought I was committed to using Glasurit. My painter said he could use it but preferred PPG because that is what he used on his other restorations. When looking at examples of his other clients cars, I trusted his experience with the results he achieved with his preferred products. When I learned that PPG products were certified by Mercedes for use on collision repairs I saw no reason to dispute my painters recommendation. On top of it all, I am still very pleased with the results.

[Vander]

FWIW my car was restored and painted about 20 years ago. AT THAT TIME the paint materials alone--no labor--were in the $1,500 price range. That was for the Glasurit branded paints, reducers, primers, etc.

Quality materials today are about $4,000 to do a complete car.

[johnk]

I went with Standox as Herbert Standox was the original manufacturer for my color. It was 1,800 for the base clear and thinner. However the paint shops pay much less. A local high-end porsche restoration shop told me they pay 400 a gallon for Glasurit and another shop told me their best PPG clear is only about 200 a gallon.  I think the paint suppliers must make all their money off of the do-it yourselfers like me as they charge almost 100 bucks for a quart of primer.

[franjo_66]

In case this helps your decision - I did my car (black 230SL) in a single stage, and the gloss/shine is still amazing after 12 years.
It outshines any newer car in black/black metallic with the base coat/clear coat set up.

I'll post some pictures later today (in photos forum) - but I would strongly recommend single stage if you have a competent paint shop

[prefervintage]

That would be great to see the photos of your 230SL in black....in fact, photos of members who have had good results on their repaint, with mention what kind of paint, would be very interesting...at one time or another, we all will have to go through this needing a repaint, and choosing a paint system...

[franjo_66]

Here are some pics of my car - single stage black (MB code 040G)
Paint is approx 12 years old now

[franjo_66]

Some more pics

[franjo_66]

And couple more

[Shvegel]

The manufacturer of the paint is relatively unimportant as the vast majority of us own cars that rarely see daylight.  Pretty much any paint system sold today will outlast the original enamel by far.  I prefer single stage to base/clear for solid colors.  To me there is a difference in the way it looks.  Any modern finish done right will shine but clear coat seems to somehow look less rich to me.  If you do use single stage one of the issues is finding a paint manufacturer that make a single stage formula for your car.  Many companies no longer support a wide variety of single stage colors as so little of it is sprayed anymore.

We went through several companies and finally settled on Nason which is a second line of Axalta coatings (Standox / Spies Hecker among others).  I am very happy with the paint and the color match was spot on.  My car is DB350 Medium Blue (Mittleblau) and it seems to look like a different color  in every light.  The match was so perfect that I left the glove box in the original finish in case anyone ever questioned the color.   

Cost is hard to break out as my entire skin of my shell and much of the inner structure were changed but if I had to guess with them starting with the car apart and with stripped and epoxy primed panels with the shell being perfect with no dents and the aluminum panels being lightly pummeled all over I would guess about $10,000.  I am very happy with the work and what you see here is straight out of the spray booth and completely unbuffed. 

[mbpaul]

I had my 230SL painted 3 years ago.  It included stripping down to bare metal and doing very minor door ding type repairs.  It was repainted with a single stage paint from Dupont/Axalta.  Three coats of paint were put on and then it was sanded and polished.  The person painting the car said about one coat of paint was probably sanded/polished off.  Cost was about $7500.  Result is magnificant!  Could not be happier.

I think you make sure whoever is painting the car is comfortable doing what you want.  Original paint is not available but as other have said, the newer paint are better and longer lasting.  Some states restrict the kinds of paint that can be used, especially in California, so what is "right" in one place may not be available elsewhere.

[prefervintage]

These are magnificent photos guys of your cars, thank you! From what has been shared, it seems that the cost today does hover between $8-10K for a strip down to metal, doors, hood, trunk off, single best 3-4 coats, one coat color sanded off type of job...guess that is what I'll do...the painter did suggest that to me from the start. I did body work over the rear wheel wells a decade ago that is still good, but I wish I had used lead instead of plastic filler. I've only recently practiced using lead filler with a kit from Eastwood, and it's amazing the kind of finish you can get. I know Rolls Royce still used lead up to the eighties with the Silver Spirit/Spurs near the rear roof line, and it seems to hold up better over time than the polymers with any body flexing, like with some convertibles, although the unibody on the SLs from what I've seen is quite rigid (a '47 Cadillac convertible I saw recently twisted like a pretzel when jacked up on one side)...I expect our W113s must have lead too on the main shell as theses I've read were the last MBs to be hand built?...I'll post pictures when mine is stripped to see if and where any lead is, and the paint process overall, along with the final invoice and paint used...waiting to bring it in any day now, told it will take a month or two. The white on my car is code 050, but I think a slightly lighter white would look better....050 seems more of a cream color to me...any other pictures of member cars with paint jobs in the past few years?