car VIN vs Title VIN

[john.mancini]

I recently purchased a 1965 230SL where the car VIN (11304210011XXX) is in a different format than the Title VIN (011XXX230SL). Same production number, different format. I have seen this once before on a 68 280SL that I bought over twenty years ago. Now however, the DMV in Florida requires that the car and title VIN's match. Anyone ever had this issue? Any suggestions?

[ejboyd5]

Your penchant for security as evidenced by the inclusion of so many "x" characters in your question makes it impossible to give a accurate answer. The "230SL" on the title would however seem to indicate a mistake was made when the car was first registered as this error has appeared with other cars. Where was the car registered prior to your purchase? Was it a title transfer to you or a simple bill of sale?

[mdsalemi]

I believe, John, that this is rather simple.

You need to get an application for Title in Florida. On the title application, there's a space for verification of VIN which must be done by a law enforcement officer. I think you fill it all out, and that's it.

I had a similar issue years ago. My car had no title at all; it had been grandfathered in NY before they had titles. I got the application for title, had the car's VIN inspected by a member of the police force in the state (happened to be an undercover drug task force agent for a multi-jurisdictional police group  ) sent it all in, and shortly had the car's first title.

The concept is you are not trying to transfer a title from somewhere else to you. You are using the bill of sale and the title transfer to verify your data on the title application in Florida.

[Vander]

I see this issue a lot. Different states many years ago titled these different ways, not consistent from one to the next. And now employees at title offices seem thrown off by anything that is not a standard 17 digit vin.

I think your best option is to try and show and explain how they do match. Your vin is 011XXX, explain to them that those 6 numbers are the serial number. That 113042 is the chassis prefix, NOT the serial number. Then show them on your metal plate in the engine compartment or door jamb that there is also 011XXX 230SL.

So technically you do have 011XXX 230SL on the title and data plate.

You can try and get 112043011XXX but that may be a headache. Let us know how it goes.

[doitwright]

One thought is that somewhere along the chain of ownership a previous owner added the “230SL” at the end of the title VIN (perhaps not to confuse with other car titles) and it was picked up as actual during a title registration. The W111 coupe I sold last year was missing a “1” at the beginning of the title VIN so the title started out as 110. I discovered that the title VIN only had 13 digits instead of 14 so it was clear it had been mistakenly dropped during a title transfer.

As a side note regarding titles, I am amazed how much fraud there is in title processing and how little concern there is with the state agencies that you would think would have an interest in preventing it. Several years ago I bought a used Toyota Camry with 80K mile on the odometer that came with a clean title to support odometer. I later discovered the car had over 150K miles and was totaled by insurance. I should have been suspicious when the guy I purchased the car from offered me a (later discovered to be doctored) carfax report. Even with evidence in hand and the name, phone number and address of the seller, the Illinois Secretary of State’s Police department and local police department refused to get involved. My claim was returned with the reason “this is a civil matter”. Always run your own carfax when you can.

[john.mancini]

This is my second Pagoda with the exact discrepancy in the VIN's. I'm hoping that the Florida officer who verifies the VIN can see that it's the same VIN, simply recorded two different ways. The original title was a Colorado title. Thanks for the input.

[john.mancini]

Your penchant for security as evidenced by the inclusion of so many "x" characters in your question makes it impossible to give a accurate answer. The "230SL" on the title would however seem to indicate a mistake was made when the car was first registered as this error has appeared with other cars. Where was the car registered prior to your purchase? Was it a title transfer to you or a simple bill of sale?

I think you missed the point of the question. The production numbers are the same, but the VIN entered on the title is presented with "230SL" at the end and omits the "1134210" at the beginning. The actual production numbers have nothing to do with the question. Sorry for the confusion.

[49er]

 I guess my original outdated VIN (280SL003820) will stay with my car as long as I own it. Must be a pain for the CA DMV computer every year to make sense of it

John

[MikeSimon]

I have seen several occasions where certain States work the model number into the VIN and it differs from the actual vehicle VIN. I have no idea what the reason for this is. I am afraid it may have to do with some processes where a title was lost or never issued (foreign import) and one of these commercial title issuing companies produced a title.
The basic lesson is, never buy an out-of-state vehicle where the VIN does not exactly match the title. I walked away from such transactions when the seller refused to correct it.

[scoot]

I guess my original outdated VIN (280SL003820) will stay with my car as long as I own it. Must be a pain for the CA DMV computer every year to make sense of it

I've had VINs corrected at CA DMV several times.  Once even at Autoclub but I don't think they will do that anymore.  You need to be able to find the VIN on the car in two locations for a DMV field office to do it, otherwise it requires an appointment with the highway patrol for a VIN inspection.   If you ever sell your car or someone inherits it, it would behoove the new owner to have it fixed.

[john.mancini]

Although the VIN's don't match, the production numbers do match. We know the car is legit. The VIN was simply recorded in a different format. I wanted to know if this is fairly common as I have experienced this twice, with the same formatted VIN. I'm hoping that I can convince the Florida DMV to change the VIN to the one that's on the car once they inspect the car and see that it was simply recorded differently on the original title. It's difficult at this time because with Covid the FL DMV is doing everything by mail or on line.

[scoot]

Although the VIN's don't match, the production numbers do match. We know the car is legit. The VIN was simply recorded in a different format. I wanted to know if this is fairly common as I have experienced this twice, with the same formatted VIN. I'm hoping that I can convince the Florida DMV to change the VIN to the one that's on the car once they inspect the car and see that it was simply recorded differently on the original title. It's difficult at this time because with Covid the FL DMV is doing everything by mail or on line.

Yes, at least in California this is common with old cars that have been in the state for a long time.  FL DMV should be able to fix this and it will probably require a vehicle inspection.  Whether or not they will do that during Covid, who knows.  Ask them.

[PSB]

Hi John,

I had exactly the same issue with a 1966 230 SL USA model.  The car was imported into Ireland in 2008 ( no issue was raised then ) and then into Portugal in 2016... Then the problems started . The motor vehicle registration authorities stated the VIN didn't match the title "end of story". For over a year I tried...tried logical arguments, took photos of pages from w113 books that explain how these cars VIn numbers etc are made up, got the Mercedes Benz subsidiary and MB classic center to write a letter stating that the vin and title corresponded and that 230SL at the end in the title was never part of the original title but a substitute for the w113 in the start of the vin , photos of  vin /tags etc .... No result ... I managed to track the issue back to the last USA title I could find. Exchanged emails with California/USA and was told to send the car back to the USA with the title and the local authorities would check and validate if correct !!!!!    I almost despaired and was about to break up a pretty decent car.
Then I decided to call the Motor vehicle authorities ( not sure of the correct name ) , explained the issue and then sent over the current Irish title with the "incorrect "VIn the MB letter, the photocopies from the specialist books  etc.... A week later I received a new Irish title with a matching corrected  VIN.
Problem solved , car registered and new title issued in Portugal. The original title had an additional problem which you don't have .. The last number in the title before the 230SL was a J instead of a 5, a mistake likely originated from handwritten registration many years ago where a handwritten 5 could be confused with a J. This was also sorted with the same MB letter etc in Ireland.
All it took was one understanding lady bothering to listen and look at a few papers to understand these issues. Hopefully you will find someone who will do the same.
Good luck.
Cheers
Pedro

[john.mancini]

Today the VIN gets verified by the local police. I'll keep you posted.

[mdsalemi]

...by the local police. I'll keep you posted.

Don't forget the donuts...

[john.mancini]

I called to get an appointment with our local police to verify my VIN. Shorty, a very kind policeman was at my door! He told me that he had never seen a VIN like mine. He checked my paperwork, which included an out of state title, and called back to HQ. After about 20 minutes on the phone with his superior, he was told to sign my verification form. Thank goodness. The donuts worked!

[Cees Klumper]

Thanks for the update and congrats on the result! Glad that Shorty enjoyed the donuts ...

[mdsalemi]

...he told me that he had never seen a VIN like mine...

The VINs were standardized in 1981. That being 39 years ago, maybe before your Officer Friendly was born, it's no wonder he hadn't seen yours/ours VIN prior...

Here's all anyone needs or wants to know about this standardization and "decoding" a VIN, post 1981.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_identification_number

[PSB]

Great stuff John.
As I said in my post , after 1 year of total frustration, all that was needed was one person ( lady in my case ) a bit understanding and bothering to listen and look at a couple of papers . A bit of intelligence and goodwill really .
Cheers
Pedro