Author Topic: replace 230 with 250 or 280  (Read 2430 times)

jharkin

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replace 230 with 250 or 280
« on: July 24, 2020, 18:26:42 »
besides getting a stronger drivetrain, appreciate any comments about
1. other pros and cons
2. does engine determine standard or automatic, or can original trans be used?
3. generally what cost range might be
68 250SL White over Blue manual
84 280CE Lapis Blue auto
67 250SL Silver Gray auto,  sold :(
63 230SL Metallic Blue manual,  sold

uptheorg

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Re: replace 230 with 250 or 280
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2020, 15:00:51 »
I have made comments elsewhere about all the love that 280’s get versus 250’s and 230’s and I will repeat them here:

 When I started looking for one of these, I didn’t know much about the differences, but eventually realized that I would rather have a 230SL. Why? Here are the reasons for me: 1) The 230SL is the original concept for the car that was envisioned by the designers and engineers, so in appearance and performance, it comes closest to what they intended. 2) There are more chrome bits found around the interior than in the later cars where there was an effort to remove sharp edges and things sticking out of the dash and door panels. The chrome bits were also believed to create reflections that might distract the driver. In addition, the heater controls have those cool “backlit” color knobs on them (which were later eliminated). 3) The exterior does not have the turn signal indicators that came on the later cars, giving a cleaner appearance allowing the lines of the car to show better. 4) The cars are somewhat lighter than the later cars, which means that the performance gains of the larger engines in the later cars are very modest in comparison. 5) The headlamps used were the European LHD style which is better looking than the closed system used later. 6) No bumper overriders and no headrests were used on the early cars (which I prefer.)

I will add, since you mentioned it, this car is a much "sportier" drive with the manual transmission. Not fast, but more fun. Just sayin'

thelews

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Re: replace 230 with 250 or 280
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2020, 17:50:10 »
What he said above, but with the early 250, you get everything he mentioned (not sure about the headlights) PLUS the mechanical upgrades of the 280.
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE
1971 Alfa Romeo GTV 1750

perry113

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Re: replace 230 with 250 or 280
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2020, 02:09:19 »
I have made comments elsewhere about all the love that 280’s get versus 250’s and 230’s and I will repeat them here:

 When I started looking for one of these, I didn’t know much about the differences, but eventually realized that I would rather have a 230SL. Why? Here are the reasons for me: 1) The 230SL is the original concept for the car that was envisioned by the designers and engineers, so in appearance and performance, it comes closest to what they intended. 2) There are more chrome bits found around the interior than in the later cars where there was an effort to remove sharp edges and things sticking out of the dash and door panels. The chrome bits were also believed to create reflections that might distract the driver. In addition, the heater controls have those cool “backlit” color knobs on them (which were later eliminated). 3) The exterior does not have the turn signal indicators that came on the later cars, giving a cleaner appearance allowing the lines of the car to show better. 4) The cars are somewhat lighter than the later cars, which means that the performance gains of the larger engines in the later cars are very modest in comparison. 5) The headlamps used were the European LHD style which is better looking than the closed system used later. 6) No bumper overriders and no headrests were used on the early cars (which I prefer.)

I will add, since you mentioned it, this car is a much "sportier" drive with the manual transmission. Not fast, but more fun. Just sayin'
I could not agree with you more.
In addition the 230SL has square weave carpet vs 280SL loop carpeting. The 230SL's engine is unique to 1 model car only. It is very specialized. A super hot rod engine that was born from the M127 220SEB engine. The engine's crankshaft was counter balanced with the flywheel on a 230SL engine. I don't believe this was the case on 250 and 280 series. The early car 1965 model year and earlier had a special "header manifold". It makes the engine sound even better than the later cast manifold introduced in model year 1966. I own a May 1965 model year build automagic with headers and an October 1965 build 66 4 speed (11th car built with the later manifolds) and there is an exhaust note difference between the 2. Each car has the exact same ANSA exhaust systems.
The 230SL has earlier rims that accommodate provisions for the 2 piece (cap and beauty ring) much like a 190SL.
The earlier interior door key hole shaped door handles from W121 W110 W111 and the more substantial aluminum door pockets are so much more beautiful than the 280SL flexible door pockets and later W108 interior door handles.
Less common to see the ugly bumperettes on 230SL than 280SL. No headrest (although lacking the safety feature of a headrest) makes it such that the top of the seat cannot be seen from a straight view side shot of the car adding to it's beautiful profile.
There is so much more personality to a 230SL in my eye but that's just me.
It is the "purist" version of the W113.
Yes it is true that early 250SL's have many of the 230SL features. But not many to be found.
I would much rather own a 230SL over a 280SL any day of the week.
It is harder to find excellent original survivor 230SL's than 280SL's so that is a consideration.
I would be open to finding a good in any 3 of the models than narrow your consideration.
Peter Perry
1970 911T Bahia Red
1972 911T Albert Blau
1963 220seb coupe barn
1965 230SL Light Ivory automatic
1966 230SL Havana Brown 4 speed Barn Find
1970 280SE living 3.5 donor car

Garry

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Re: replace 230 with 250 or 280
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2020, 05:47:13 »
I also agree with everything said on the 230sl and the early 250sl as well.  Could be biased, but I sold my 280 5 speed to get myself a 230sl so have owned both vehicles.  I am not interested in the poser game but much more interested in the pure aesthetics of the original Paul Bracq design. 


The bonus is that the original 230sl is the far better buy for a heap less money.
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G
2005 MB A200
2006 MB B200
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MikeSimon

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Re: replace 230 with 250 or 280
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2020, 13:19:30 »
Having worked in the automotive industry all my life, I cannot disconnect myself from the advantage of technical progress and advancements. Thus the 280SL, for me, is the pinnacle of the W113.
My car is a late 280 German spec, so, some of the critique I cannot relate to, i.e.: bumperettes, headrests. The major advantages of the 280SL over the 230SL for me are the engine, with the additional main bearings, and the four disc brakes. Parts availability, which is slightly better for the 280SL is also an issue. The often cited chromed metal parts in the 230 over plastic in the 280 is something that is hard to recognize and not something I really put a value on.
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner