Author Topic: Preparing for Winter - An Observation I Am Sure Known to Most of You  (Read 3942 times)

Pawel66

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Most of you know it, but still...

I have realized today how much water gets to engine bay and where it goes during a quick wash of the car.

I had to give her a quick wash as I was caught in the rain on Friday coming back from castor adjustment. There are no gutters on the sides of the hood. The only gutter there is on the windshield side - but water from that gutter goes to the engine bay.

After a quick wash you have water:
- under the brakes booster
- on the flat surface under the fuse box
- under the wiring
- relays bracket
- under the options plate
- in the shock absorber mounting
- wiring on the inner fender in front of relay bracket

- on the flat surface between coolant tank support and firewall
- under the wiring there
- under the fuse box and regulator
- under the base of the coolant tank (very difficult to reach and blast our with air)
- in the shock absorber mount

We discussed water drains in some of these places and plugging them. water stays under the wiring clamps, under wires etc.

I have never liked a "good wash" of a car we use for driving in sunny days only for the winter and packing it for 5 moths in the garage. A good wash is great, but I htink you should still drive the car for some time before putting it to bed for the winter. I just cannot imagine all this water stays there and there are a lot of places water stays that we even cannot imagine.

It took me good 20min with compressed air gun to get rid of water I could see. I would not care in the middle of the season, but I could not imagine leaving the car like that for the winter even in dry garage.
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

FGN59

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Re: Preparing for Winter - An Observation I Am Sure Known to Most of You
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2020, 20:39:24 »
I fully agree with you. As much as possible, never let a car (an old car especially) that has just been washed rest in place. You should drive it asap to let the air flow dry the car, including in all the nooks and crannies that you cannot see/access. Personally, unless something really bad has happened (and even then), I never wash my old cars with running water. I wipe them clean gently with a humid cloth, and then with a dry one immediately after, piece by piece (hood, fender, door, etc.), outside and inside when possible. Not much longer (but it takes a bit more energy), and a lot safer.
François

1994 Toyota Land Cruiser SW HDJ80 4.2L diesel
sold:
1969 280SL US specs, 4-speed manual, beige-grey (726H), parchment leather
1962 Jaguar MK2 3.8L (4.2L XJ6 engine), black, tan leather interior
1968 Peugeot 204 roadster, white, black interior
1955 Massey Ferguson TEF20 diesel tractor 😁

GM

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Re: Preparing for Winter - An Observation I Am Sure Known to Most of You
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2020, 22:48:18 »
https://www.amazon.com/Meguiars-G3626-Ultimate-Waterless-Wash/dp/B006FUT0CS/ref=asc_df_B006FUT0CS/
ONE EASY STEP: Premium formula conveniently and gently washes and adds wax protection in one easy step. Can be used anywhere with no hose, bucket, or rinsing
WATER SPOT-FREE: Advanced chemistry contains a water spot-free formula coupled with a high-lubricity that protects the surface against swirling and scratching as it gently cleans
LONG-LASTING BARRIER: Advanced polymer chemistry leaves behind a glossy, synthetic wax barrier that lasts weeks
SAFE FOR GLOSSY PAINTS: Is safe and effective on all glossy paints and clear coat finishes, glass, chrome, polished metals, and plastic trim.
NO EQUIPMENT NEEDED: Ideal for those who do not have access to a hose, live in a city, or apartment, or are under water restrictions
Gary
1971 280SL - Sold
(98 from the end of production)
DB180 Silver Gray Metallic
Black MB Tex

Pawel66

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Re: Preparing for Winter - An Observation I Am Sure Known to Most of You
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2020, 23:13:30 »
Does it really work and not scratching body when applied to dirty surface?
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

thelews

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Re: Preparing for Winter - An Observation I Am Sure Known to Most of You
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2020, 23:14:52 »
I've had my Pagoda 13 years and have never once washed it with a hose, except for the wheels.

If a dirty situation occurs, a wet cloth will do the job.  Dirty being relative on a car that pretty much only sees dry weather.
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE
1971 Alfa Romeo GTV 1750

mauro12

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Re: Preparing for Winter - An Observation I Am Sure Known to Most of You
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2020, 14:25:09 »
What is in your opinion the best way to protect our cars from rust? Sometimes I see videos of pagoda complitly rotten. Rust everywhere , especially around drain holes. How can a car become such a piece of rust?
What did wrong the owners of those cars?
What I personally do is to keep as much as possible the car away from rain and water . Second thing I keep the car always in garage with a dehumidifier and a soft car cover. Anymore suggestions?
Mauro Pisani
250sl 1967 5speed zf manual

dirkbalter

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Re: Preparing for Winter - An Observation I Am Sure Known to Most of You
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2020, 15:11:33 »
What is in your opinion the best way to protect our cars from rust? Sometimes I see videos of pagoda complitly rotten. Rust everywhere , especially around drain holes. How can a car become such a piece of rust?
What did wrong the owners of those cars?
What I personally do is to keep as much as possible the car away from rain and water . Second thing I keep the car always in garage with a dehumidifier and a soft car cover. Anymore suggestions?

Well,
I believe it mainly depends on where the car spend the early days of its existence. At that time, they were actually used as cars and driven. My 230 spend the first 20years in the south of Germany and definitely saw its share of water and possibly salt in the streets.  Even though looking fairly good on the outside, a lot of panels and other components were rusted from the inside out.  If your car lived in a warmer, dryer climate, changes are these panels… survived much better.
I find it quiet amusing how we are worried of getting a few drops of water on the paint when the real problems are somewhere else.
Dirk
66 230 SL
70 280 SEL
53 CHEVY 3100
18 C300 COUPE
05 HD FLSTNI

mauro12

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Re: Preparing for Winter - An Observation I Am Sure Known to Most of You
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2020, 15:57:16 »
My car was bought in 1967 in Messina , Sicily and spent all of his life between owners of the same city and finally to me. We are next to the sea and we have mild climate all year. In my opinion is the way how you keep your car for example wash in the proper way and store in garage . Is sure that the metals used 50 years ago are not the metals that we have today. Look at old fiat, they have huge problems regarding rust .
Anyway I believe that if you have rust in the floor pan or trunk it can be fixed easily ( sooner or later we will
Have to do that ).The problem are if you have structural rust in the frame.
Mauro Pisani
250sl 1967 5speed zf manual

lowpad

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Re: Preparing for Winter - An Observation I Am Sure Known to Most of You
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2020, 15:13:49 »
Maybe slightly off topic, but I have my car ceramic coated by a local detailer every year.  It's just amazing the protection it provides while making it much easier to wash.  I have done a mix of wet washing (as I live on a dirt road) as well as the occasional wet-towel clean and I've not seen any increase in scratches in the otherwise gleaming finish that lasts for months.  I can dry the car in minutes after a normal wash. 
1966 230SL (6/66 build)
French export
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1991 Acura NSX

mdsalemi

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Re: Preparing for Winter - An Observation I Am Sure Known to Most of You
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2020, 16:02:30 »
There is a huge difference between washing your car, driving your car in the rain, and or course, driving your car on salt-laden streets in the winter.

Having once owned a car wash, I saw hundreds of cars each week come in for washing. Some were regular customers washing all the time, some only rarely. There were many times when I'd see the same era cars come in, (say, late 1980s models) that were rust buckets, and or blistering paint, and the same models come in that were in excellent condition. In all cases the best ones were regularly washed, and often garaged. The worst were ill maintained and in some cases, parked under trees. Some people cared about their cars, others treated them as a transportation appliance, used them until they stopped and then got rid of them. Everyone is of a different mindset.

My wash offered complete self serve as well as a touchless automatic. We didn't see too many roadsters come by, but some did come for a hand wash they did themselves. We did see some customers driving a very long distance to my wash, for we could wash in the touchless an F350 4-door Supercrew with extended 8' bed, duelly wheels and a 6" lift kit (or the GM/Ram equivalent); no other touchless in the area could do that. They loved their trucks in Michigan.

 One little old lady would always wash her car by herself, but as a courtesy (it kept her coming back) I'd turn on the powerful dryers in the automatic, and she'd drive back and forth until her car was dry...and she'd be back the next week. Another older man with handicap plates would come by for an automatic wash, and was grateful I'd wipe down his door seals by hand and spray them with a silicone spray to prevent freeze up in the winter. He was so grateful.

It would be extremely unlikely that you would cause your car to seriously deteriorate [in your lifetime] by washing alone. Driving on wet pavement [or worse, in the rain] will force or push all kinds of road grime deep into the recesses of your car; washing will get a lot of that out if you are careful. When there is salt in that grime, that's when trouble begins. In the winter, those salt-laden streets are serious trouble. The older "classic" or collectible cars (of which there are hundreds of thousands in Michigan) would hibernate from October until the "April showers" cleaned the streets of salt.

I always gave my car a couple of coats of wax a year, always did a clay-bar and polish before hand. Gentle washing (never needed high pressure) and that's it.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
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Pawel66

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Re: Preparing for Winter - An Observation I Am Sure Known to Most of You
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2020, 16:24:55 »
Nice stories!

I do not go as far as wash my car with a dry cloth - I have the impression you will ruin paintwork sooner or later doing that, but I may be wrong. I do use running water, no pressure though. In the winter, I lift the car in my Quick Jack and clean the underside. I drove her in the rain once or twice during events and once I was caught in the storm (that was when I found out I had a wrong relay for wipers).

Now as I paid attention and noticed where the rinsing water goes - I will always budget half an hour with compressed air to dry the engine bay...
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

MikeSimon

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Re: Preparing for Winter - An Observation I Am Sure Known to Most of You
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2020, 17:05:37 »
We have several "no-contact" or "laser" car washes in our area. The concern about brushes or cloths rubbing and damaging the paint is no longer an issue. Also, the car is parked stationary while the washing implement goes over the car, rather than the car being pulled through on rails. One of them has three full across-the-car drying runs with hot air. I have been taking my 90 Corvette ZR1 through that for the last couple of years before putting her into storage.
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RAY

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Re: Preparing for Winter - An Observation I Am Sure Known to Most of You
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2020, 18:07:01 »
I watched a tv program some time ago about Germans and there treasured cars and one owner said that it was actually illegal for them to wash there own cars at home, due to govenment measures to save water, everyone had to take them to a car wash if they wanted to get there car cleaned.

Perhaps someone who lives there could let us know if this is still the case all over Germany or is it only in certain area's.

MikeSimon

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Re: Preparing for Winter - An Observation I Am Sure Known to Most of You
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2020, 18:53:47 »
The reason, if it is the case, may not be water consumption but concerns about pollution. All the chemicals and oil and other contamination from the runoff goes into the storm sewer. A commercial garage wash has filters and oil separators.
1970/71 280SL Automatic
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Power Steering
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Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
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mdsalemi

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Re: Preparing for Winter - An Observation I Am Sure Known to Most of You
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2020, 18:59:25 »
TECHNICALLY and to the "letter of the law" as they say, it isn't "legal" for Americans to wash their cars in their driveway either, though I've never heard of anyone getting in any trouble for this. Perhaps the worst case may be washing your car when there is some restriction on outside water usage. Where I lived in Michigan, there was an "even/odd" restriction for watering your lawn, garden or other outside use. If your house number was "even" you only could use water outside on even numbered days.

The issue with "washing in your driveway" was that the residue from your car wash ends up in the storm drains, and that (again, quite technically) is a violation of the Clean Water Act of 1972. In a carwash, that residue is collected, the solids are settled out in pits, and only the liquid effluent goes into the sanitary sewer, not the storm drains. The solids and the oils collected are considered hazardous waste and require an EPA site license, "cradle to grave" responsibility, and disposal by approved haulers.

In my case, those "pits" were cleaned regularly, and the waste taken away. The hauler put it in a centrifuge and separated the oil; that oil was sent to a reprocessed and they sold it as those "white label 30 weight" oil you use in a lawnmower. The de-greased solids were then dried and sent to an approved landfill. Any other liquids were either processed or sent to the local sanitary sewer. Kind of a gross disgusting process that was just part of owning a car wash.

If you don't have an air hose/compressor to help dry your car, any kind of blower (including a leaf blower) does a pretty good job.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2020, 20:09:29 by mdsalemi »
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

mauro12

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Re: Preparing for Winter - An Observation I Am Sure Known to Most of You
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2020, 11:25:43 »
Do you think is it a good idea to clean with a garden hose the wheel arches ( fender) of the car or not? I’m scared about putting water in the underside of the car. My car is rust free but I have seen many pagodas eaten by rust in an incredible way. I’m still wondering how is possible .
Mauro Pisani
250sl 1967 5speed zf manual

Pawel66

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Re: Preparing for Winter - An Observation I Am Sure Known to Most of You
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2020, 13:26:25 »
I use sponch and bucket for wheel arches. Just rinse it with garden hose, but no pressure cleaning like I do on every day car.
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

FastWgn

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Re: Preparing for Winter - An Observation I Am Sure Known to Most of You
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2020, 11:33:48 »
Hmm, there is some info in the is thread that makes me crinch a bit.

Never use a dry cloth to wipe off your car - you will make scratches, microscopic or larger, when dirt gets trapped in the cloth and then is pulled.
Always use some kind of lubricant / water for cleaning.

When washing - after a thorough rinse, pull the wash mitt (micro fiber) in the same direction the wind is flowing over the body. Do not use circular motion!

For drying - don't use a chamois, but use a deeper microfiber cloth. Some people use a leaf blower - works well but you better make sure you are in an area with no dust, pebbles etc since else you are making the car dirty again.

You can use compressed air to blow out crevices, or drive the car a short distance. The rest can air dry. Unless you live in a very damp environment (as in jungle, or Nordcap in November), the residual water will evaporate rapidly.

Of course - make sure all the drain holes in doors etc are not clogged
================
1969 280 SL, 4 speed.

Pawel66

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Re: Preparing for Winter - An Observation I Am Sure Known to Most of You
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2020, 11:52:36 »
I had the same thought about dry cleaning or even wet cloth cleaning. I remember from my young days helping my Dad wash the car: make the car wet with water so that all the dirt soaks through and softens or starts having tendency to easily detach.

Thanks for other tips!
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

MikeSimon

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Re: Preparing for Winter - An Observation I Am Sure Known to Most of You
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2020, 13:17:01 »
To begin with, you may want to treat your car with a coat of Teflon-based "car wax". This will help protect the surface from a lot of damage, like acid rain and minor scratches, for example.
My 1990 Corvette ZR1 was treated by the prep department of the dealer with that and the paint is still a deep mirror shine. After 30 years.
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner

mauro12

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Re: Preparing for Winter - An Observation I Am Sure Known to Most of You
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2020, 20:20:54 »
I’ve just bought a wax from meguair’s called fast finish. Is very easy to put and gives a very nice surface and increase the gloss .
Is a si synthetic wax and not carnauba wax. I think it last more.
Mauro Pisani
250sl 1967 5speed zf manual