windscreen and rear window rubber replacement w111 coupe

[col320ce]

Any resources or tips on doing this?
Thanks!

[wwheeler]

If you have never installed a windshield, you might consider getting a pro. These are a bit tricky to get right. The upper wood should come out for best access. The rubber goes on the glass, then the aluminum piece goes in the seal and then the whole assembly goes on. If using a new aluminum bright trim, I would test fit it to the opening without the seal and make sure it fits perfectly. My new bright piece had a sag in the middle and now it sits a bit low along the roof line in the middle. This piece is easily bent, so watch out.
I attached a sketch of the new vs. old seal profile. This is for a W113, but very similar for a W111.

Aaron has been talking about using a sealer between the seal and the car opening. He might elaborate more on that and what to use. I found evidence of that when I replaced my original windshield awhile back.

Might also consider installing a new headliner because it is tucked in under both front and rear glass.

[col320ce]

thanks .... I think I know what I am doing now!

[Aaron h]

The picture below depicts the sealant I'm referring to.  I'm shocked at the number of glass specialists and restoration specialists that aren't aware of the need for a sealant on ANY glass that uses a rubber seal that has to be roped in.  Mercedes did this at the factory, and they didn't do it for laughs.  It was done to keep water out because this type of seal around glass is not water tight. 

This sealant requires a standard caulking gun that you can buy at any hardware store or home improvement store.  You can also buy the more expensive pneumatic caulking gun if you wish.  The sealant is applied to the inner channel of the opening on the chassis.  The glass is then roped in.  After the glass is roped in, you pry back the seal from the glass, insert the plastic tip on the tube of sealant, and then inject the sealant to seal the glass to the rubber seal.  Not doing this is only doing half the job.  Water ingress will occur otherwise. 

At the factory, they used what was more of a glazing putty that plumbers use on sink drains to basins.  If you're an originality nut you can use plumbers putty and achieve the same sealing results as you can with the newer glass sealant Mercedes sells.  The problem with the plumbers glazing putty is that it turns rick hard after 20-30 years.....but with daily use a windshield seal needs to be replaced every 10-12 years.  But no one EVER did that. 

It's a common misconception that a windshield seal is good for the life of the car.  To suggest one replace their windshield seal at 10-12 year intervals is absolute nonsense to most.  (because they know best, right?)  No, this wasn't in the factory literature, and no it wasn't commonly practiced.  But remember that just because it's not in the service book doesn't mean it's good for the life of the car.  The same convention can be applied to timing chains. ....they are NOT good for the life of the engine.  Would any of you not ever replace your drive belts or radiator hoses on the engine because they "look" ok?  Probably not.

[col320ce]

Thanks Aaron
I bought some of that sealant and I'll make sure I fully understand the instructions you gave before starting this.

[wwheeler]

Aaron,

I am a little confused on where you are saying this sealant needs to go. There is a cross section of a similar windscreen seal in an earlier post. Can you mark on that what groove the sealant goes in.

Not sure the windshield on my W111 was original when I bought it, but could have been. It was a Sekurit brand and had the delaminating inner layer. Who knows, but when I took it off, there was a black putty (like plumber's putty) that was rock hard between the seal and the car frame. Seems like it was on the upper going across, the corners and the sides. Not on the lower part just above the air scoop. Is this the same material?

Thanks.   

[col320ce]

Hi Aaron
I'm just about to do the back window.  I'm a little unsure exactly where the sealant will go. Do I apply it into the channel where the glass slots into the rubber then after installation go around the outside between the rubber and the car body?
Thanks very much ...

[col320ce]

I thought I'd share my experience putting in the rear window on the 250SE/Cp.

It ended up being really easy however I needed to find 5 other ways not to put it in before I worked out the east way.  Make sure the channel is clean from most/all of the other fixing material

1. mark the exact centre of the window when it is being dry fitted (without the rubber seal on it
2. Use glass lifters (suction cup things) on the outside and the inside of the window
3. Put the rubber on the windscreen. there is an in and an out and it can be confusing. The inside has the small lip all the way around it. The outside top has a wide rubber "band" on it and the lower outside has a narrow rubber "band" on it.
4. do a dry fitting before putting any sealant on the window
5. Put 4mm cord in the lip (google some videos on "cording in a windshield") STARTING AT THE TOP
6. Put a 2.5mm cord in the outside lip as this can help get the sealant in later
7. place windscreen in position and make sure it is centred both laterally and vertically
8. apply pressure from the outside and pull from the inside and cord it in
9. once you have proven that you can get it in ... take it out and put sealant in the gutter (see photo)
10. do it again
11. push the window up from the outside to let it seat in correctly and then seal around the rubber against the metal frame and glass (use the non drying Mercedes stuff
12. fix up the headlining boy poking it in

I used washing detergent to help get the rubber on and in theory allow some movement when it was in place ... not sure if this helped or not.

[wwheeler]

Your the man Col!!!

I followed everything but wanted to confirm one item. I see you put sealer in the metal channel before the window and seal were installed. That I get. But not quite clear if you used sealer on anything else? You say you used a 2.5mm cord on the outer seal lip (shown on drawing previously in thread) and I can see that being pulled out in the second to last picture. Did you inject sealer under that lip against the metal? I have also heard mention you put sealer between the glass and the rubber seal. Is that what you did? Maybe if you could do a cross sectional drawing of the window seal and show where the sealer went?

I know that is a lot of work, I just want to make sure I put the sealer where it needs to go (and not where it shouldn't go).

I did my front windshield and it whistles some and I don't think I applied the sealer correctly.

Thanks. 

[col320ce]

I put sealer in the groove before then squished in as much as I could between  the metal and the seal after the window was corded in.
I actually don't think sealer needs to go around the glass-rubber interface but adding it shouldn't be a problem.
Does this make sense?
Did you start at the top or the bottom for your front winscreen when cording it in?

[wwheeler]

Thanks for the drawing. So did you put sealer between the glass and rubber interface in the end? Just confirm, you did also use the sealer under the outside lip of the rubber seal to the metal? Did you apply that as you were pulling the cord out or after the cords were pulled out?

I honestly do not remember on the front windshield. I did it twice because I wasn't happy with the fit the first time. I think I did it each way and didn't see any difference. If I had to decide, I would probably start pulling the cord at the top. Make sure the seal is exactly where it needs to be before proceeding to the sides. At some point, the sealer will provide so much drag that it makes it difficult to reposition the glass. Gravity will want to pull the glass down and so the more resistance you have to that the better.
 
My issue was the outer lip as it sat on the roof line. It is too low and has a very slight gap to the roof line. Probably where the wind noise is coming from. The second time wasn't much better and I decided the aluminum trim was bent down too low to position the seal correctly. Next time I do this, I will take the aluminum trim and make sure it fits the space perfectly before proceeding. It bends easily although you don't want to move it too much as the anodizing finish can crack some.
 

[col320ce]

Hi Wallace

I found a similar problem on one of the attempts to put the window in. I think it really needs to be centered vertically when installing. On the rear windscreen I needed to seat it correctly after the window was in. I think on the front window you may be able to push the rubber to seal things a little more but the glue will make this difficult if you don't do it really quickly.
I'm doing my front window soon ... I ran out of sealant so just need to wait for more to arrive and my usual US supplier has decided not to post it so I'm getting it from the dealer in OZ.  I'll take more pictures.
See the picture of the direction of force used to seat it properly (the rubber was not correctly sealed around the glass until I had done this...

[col320ce]

I'm trying to put the chrome trim on the lower back windscreen... Does it clip in first then pull the rubber lip over the chrome trim?  Or do I somehow need to get it under the rubber before it clips in?

[col320ce]

Worked it out... Start from the outside and work in clipping as you go and pulling the rubber over the top.

[col320ce]

Front windscreen is going in on Friday... Here's the back all done.

[wwheeler]

Nice job. I have never looked at the rear glass and nice to see what it looks like before diving in. Looks like the rubber and glass went in first and was seated and then you install the chrome trim on that.

Looking forward to the front glass install. Things worked out for me except for the upper trim piece. Once seated, the rubber was a bit too low on the roof line in the center. I am mostly interested in which way the pull cord is oriented. Do you start pulling the cord out on top or at the bottom? Next time I do this, I will make sure the match the upper trim to the roof line. I think was slightly bent downward at the top and what caused the rubber to be too low.

[col320ce]

I'll post some info when I've done it. I think the key is to have the vertical and horizontal alignment perfect before cording in. But new territory doing the front!

[col320ce]

Front now on... Not much to add other than test with dry fitting first...it took me 3 dry fits to be happy. I used a dead blow hammer (the one with sand in it) and a cloth and was able to tap down some of the chrome that was a little stuck out.
Really happy with how it turned out and was reasonably easy (after learning how to put the back one in)