Fuel Pump

[inci]

Hello everyone,
I am about to order a carter pump, but in the meantime, wanted to see if there is any tall pump for sale?
Thank you.
John

[mdsalemi]

If you find a proper new Carter electric fuel pump that delivers the proper pressure and volume needed by the Bosch FI pump, post your success here on the forums.

Just hazarding a guess that a used OEM Bosch pump is going to cost you significantly more than a new Carter, though you have to re-engineer mounting for a non-OEM model; Bud's sells a whole kit for something like $650 I think.

The Bosch ones used run between $500 and $2,000 so engineering that Carter to work may be cost effective.

[ja17]

The Carter Fuel Pump number is GP4601 HP or Summit Racing #CRT-P4601 HP . The specs for this pump are 18psi max. and 100 gallons per hour. It is a little noisier than the original but the price is right.

[Desertpagoda]

The one time installed a carter setup in a customers car, it worked just fine but was so noisey, they had me remove it

[mdsalemi]

The one time installed a carter setup in a customers car, it worked just fine but was so noisey, they had me remove it

Was the Carter installation damped with rubber bushings like the OEM Bosch unit is? Any attempt to quiet the unit with sound deadening/insulation?

[SEB]

Gentleman’s
I do not know how looks the situation on the US market with the pumps, but I noticed that the prices for the Bosch fuel pumps are much higher in USA than in Germany.
So to give you a picture from the German market for the “long” Bosch pump (up to 1968) in working condition you can get a pump for about 500 Euro and restored for about 750+ Euro.

[ja17]

At just over $100.00 new, the Carter pump is a good temporary substitute to use while your original is being rebuilt. It is also a nice spare to carry along on a long journey. Careful mounting and rubber buffering, will minimize the noise.

[inci]

Thank you very much for the replies gentlemen.

Ordered the Carter unit yesterday, but still looking for a tall unit.
Will let you guys know about the noise level.

I simply disagree with jacking up the prices by some of the shop owners, and ppl spending money w/o even thinking.
A fuel pump is on Ebay for $2,750 today.  Crazy!  They usually go for between $870-1200.   
I design and build cars for living.  A simple pump should cost around $100.  Let's say supply/demand, classic car, our pump should be around $250.  There are still plenty of them around.  Ask Bob. Even the fuel injector pump is not that expensive and harder to find.

There are many parts, if the drivers keep paying w/o thinking, ppl own these parts will keep increasing the prices.
It's so expensive to restore a pagoda now.  Some W198 parts are cheaper that W113.

Yes, of course, our friends at MB Classic Center are not helping either.  They shoot in their own foot.  Instead of promoting Mercedes-Benz heritage by promoting classics and lowering the cost of the classic's parts, they want to use the Classic Center a revenue source. 

Our fuel sending unit is a great notorious example. $250? I don't think so.
Btw, I called VDO and received the specs of the original unit, found a similar one for $58 + cable.  VDO 224-215.
Posted online (anyone could help posting the specs in the technical manual?) 

[kampala]

Inci

That VDO sending unit sure looks the part.  I am sure this will help folks.  Is there a specific cable you are referencing or just to make a cable to convert connection points?

 

[inci]

Update regarding the Carter Fuel Pump GP4601 HP noise level:

- Ambient noise level, 3 car garage, 10:00pm:                  22.0 dB
- Beige '67 250SL, Carter noise level, engine not running:  53.6 dB
- Blue '67 250SL, tall unit, original pump:                         31.2 dB
- Blue '67 250SL engine running:                                     74.7 dB

My subjective opinion about the Carter unit is; too loud in a garage when engine is not running.
If the car is outside, engine running, so so... Considering $104 versus $1,200 tall original.. hmmm; still not happy about the noise level.

Carter offers noise isolation (rubber spacers between bracket/frame), however, w/o testing it, I can tell by touching/moving the pump & listening vibration it transfers to the frame, the noise spaces will not be very effective. 

I will contact Carter and inquire about the pump specifics soon.

[66andBlue]

Have you considered a Pierburg pump? See discussion here:
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=23448.msg167821#msg167821
Quiet pump! 
The specs for the pump (Pierburg 7.21440.78.0) are in this PDF:
https://mam.rheinmetall-automotive.com/mc/epaper?guid=14c11dc01929432c

[SEB]

Hi John
can you please post also a photo of this Carter pump?
In Germany there are also some modern substitutes of this fuel pumps in a price range of 114,50 Euro (for instance the SLS company has one W113 dedicated).
Many thanks!
Sebastian

[mdsalemi]

Have you considered a Pierburg pump? See discussion here:
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=23448.msg167821#msg167821
Quiet pump! 
The specs for the pump (Pierburg 7.21440.78.0) are in this PDF:
https://mam.rheinmetall-automotive.com/mc/epaper?guid=14c11dc01929432c

That same pump is sold under the Hella name in the USA with the same part number. you can get it on Amazon. There are two reviews in German and curiously one translated suggests it is a low-cost alternative to expensive OEM fuel pumps and not too noisy. The other says it is noisy! I guess sound is in the ears of the beholder.

The only time I hear my OEM Bosch pump, is when I am doing a cold start and turn on the ignition to build fuel pressure for 10 or 15 seconds. Once the engine starts it would have to be one ungodly loud pump to hear anything out of it; The noise of the engine is just too significant. If you are underway with the top down at anything other than school zone speed, The wind noise would be even worse than the engine noise...

... And that is why one of the things you will see in my center console are sets of foam earplugs!!!

I thought I had a fuel pump problem about 10 years ago and it turned out to be something else. Nonetheless I was blessed with having friends at Bosch who sent me a brand new pump at no charge. Since the first pump was more than 40 years old and still working fine I suspect this new one will last longer than I will! 😉

[ja17]

Yes, Carter offers a "quite kit" for the pump which has three additional noise and vibration insulating rubber mountings which are very similar to the rubber mountings on the original pumps. I have not tried this kit.

[inci]

Update on the aftermarket Fuel Pump:  Carter Fuel Pump GP4601 HP
Quit working and left me stranded last night.  Worked only ~500miles/~15hrs since installed.

Looking at Amazon feedback, many complained about the same issue.
I am looking for a rebuilt original in case anyone has a unit for sale.
Hope this help..

[m300cab]

I have a pump. I've been holding it as a spare.
it appears I may never need it.
if your interested
m300cab@gmail.com
thanks
Mike