250SL ZF 5-speed at Sotheby's Amelia

[Jack the Knife]

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/am23/amelia-island/lots/r0016-1967-mercedes-benz-250-sl-pagoda-five-speed/1314019

Seems to be loaded with everything. A very nice car.

[Pinder]

Nice color combo.

I recently installed retractable seatbelts and contemplated using the same mounting location (using the screws that hold down the parcel shelf but thought that might night hold up well.

Regards

  Pinder

[Garry]

To me, this is the ultimate pick of the Pagodas.


250 motor so increased bearings, early enough to have all the chrome bling, five speed, the cream of the gearboxes, air-conditioned, and most importantly, not been modified with someone thinking they can or want to ‘improve' the original engineered design with modern thinking. Great colour combo.


About as good as it can get. Pity its not RHD to make it that bit more rare.

[Jack the Knife]

most importantly, not been modified with someone thinking they can or want to ‘improve' the original engineered design with modern thinking

Come on, man.

Stainless exhaust, modern tires, non-tinny radio, lighter-than-25lb wheels, sedan axles, electronic ignition, adjustable shocks, three-point seatbelts, contemporary insulation, unleaded fuel, aluminum radiators, non-OEM fuel pumps, kickdown switch for auto 1st gear, Getrag direct-drive-in-5th gearboxes, 107 seals around the door windows, modern lighting, better bushings, progressive springs, rear discs on a 230...

... and woe to those who ever think of improving the swing axle with their "modern" thinking.

Real "old man shouting at clouds" energy.

[Garry]

Jack,

I think you need to read the opening lines on the intent fo this Group.
https://www.sl113.org/

Not that I care what you or anyone else does to their car but I for one have huge respect for the original design and am quite comfortable maintaining my car to that standard, along with its value as an original car.  Yep some things that are consumables are changed out to a modern product, and some standard safety gear like seat belts oif they were not fitted, are all good , but other things that are purely personal preferences start to modify the car away from the original intent.  I just don't see too many 300SL’s getting modified much these days. I suspect Pagodas will, in the long run, go the same way.

"Real "old man shouting at clouds” energy”  I don't know if I should take that as a compliment or it is a bit off for this Group, as I don't understand what that means.

[rwmastel]

Come on, guys!

[Benz Dr.]

Unfortunately, I'm finding this with too many old cars. It's the owner's car, and as such it's their option, but let me expand a bit.

Right now, on another MBCI operation, ( we don't have that honour, BTW ) they're talking about a smaller Chinese starter, alternator instead of a generator, electronic ignition, after market brake booster, and now fuel injection. The members can do what they want I suppose, but the executive is promoting this and giving advice to effect these changes.

So, it's kind of simple really. Either we are a club about original cars, or we aren't. I asked for, and received, a separate forum for mods because I knew that the topic could, and would, cause friction if left unaddressed. So, we can post here, but it certainly should never become our main focus. To do so, only dilutes everything we have tried to accomplish. 

[stickandrudderman]

That certainly is a very nice looking car.
So nice that personally I would have finished a few more details before marketing it.
Just a few deviations from perfect that would be so easily rectified.

[wwheeler]

The puckers in the leather are a bit unfortunate especially in the door panels. Can't easily fix that. Still, I think I could overlook that when blasting down the roads with a 5 speed!

I was lucky to have a local guy do both my W111 and W128 leather work and he did an amazing job. He was very particular and it almost drove me crazy but the results are wonderful. I learned a lot from him about leather upholstery and soon realized how hard it is to get it just right. He was unfortunately a victim of COVID and we lost yet another craftsman.   

[thelews]

To me, this is the ultimate pick of the Pagodas.
 early enough to have all the chrome bling

Won't disagree on it being the ultimate pick

If you look at the exterior mirrors, they are the later, 280 style, not the neat gooseneck 230 style.  It has all the chrome "bling" and hard side door pockets because it's a Euro model

Edit: while my above statement about the Euro is true, this IS an early 250, chassis 917, mine is 1523 and early.  Someone put the later exterior mirrors on it.

[DaveB]

Someone put the later exterior mirrors on it.

Yep, and added the headrests and deleted the Italian side marker lights. The seller calls it an 'impossibly scarce transmission option', but in fact a relatively high proportion of Italian 250SLs were delivered with the 5-speed. I don't know why that should be, maybe just because the Ferrari had them? Or a particular dealer advocated it? The ad also states the car was, pre-restoration, a 'well-preserved and highly original candidate'. IMO they should have left it alone.. though it does look good, even with those minor imperfections (the misaligned glovebox padding would annoy me).

[DaveB]

The puckers in the leather are a bit unfortunate especially in the door panels. Can't easily fix that. Still, I think I could overlook that when blasting down the roads with a 5 speed!

I was lucky to have a local guy do both my W111 and W128 leather work and he did an amazing job. He was very particular and it almost drove me crazy but the results are wonderful. I learned a lot from him about leather upholstery and soon realized how hard it is to get it just right. He was unfortunately a victim of COVID and we lost yet another craftsman.

It must be very difficult to get all that interior trim flat and smooth because virtually no restorations get it right. It would have been interesting to see it done in the factory.
That is a real shame he is gone, I hope he passed on some of his skills and his attitude but a lot of those guys seem to be one-man operations.

[lreppond]

This is really a nice car and the factory delivered five speed elevates it to rarified status.

I’m a purist and I like to see these cars as they came off the assembly line. As pointed out, however,  it must be nearly impossible to do a full on restoration and get all the details 100% correct.  Newer components like paints, carpeting and MBTex or leathers are just different now from what the factory used, minute details are not universally known and dedicated craftsmen are extremely difficult to find.  That said, I’ve seen a handful of top notch restorations. Not surprisingly, those cars commanded prices in line with the quality of work and time required to restore them to such exacting standards. 

[thelews]

Here's an original early 250 SL door panel

[Neil Thompson]

it may have a couple of bits not totally correct but what a beautifully presented car, someone is going to be very pleased if they buy it

Neil

[Jack the Knife]

Sold for 168k. Nice!

[lreppond]

Certainly, $168k is a respectable amount.  Honestly, though, I would have expected it to go for more.  Killer paint and interior combo, great looking engine bay, a 250, quality restoration, and a 3 peddle w/5 speeds!  If that’s not  as good as it gets, what the heck is?

[Jordan]

For a lot less money I would have gone for the Allard K2.  That is one stunning gorgeous car.

[mauro12]

I have a 250sl with 5speed zf gearbox . Is a fantastic car .

[rosemeyer]

I recall inquiring about this car when it was for sale at a Southern California Porsche specialist shop. At the time (about 2 years ago IIRC) the ask was 295K and they were not interested in entertaining offers substantially below that amount. I thought that they were at least 100K over, even with the ZF. Seeing the catalogue of photos in the RM listing I see deficiencies that were not evident in the photos that I saw previously. As Stick pointed out, there are several details that, while not particularly difficult or expensive to address, would push this otherwise excellent car up another notch.  It seems the market has spoken, as it always does.

Regards,
Paul