ChatGPT - SL - chatbot

[BartSt]

Hi,
I do not know who owns the database of the group.
But it can be a very good idea to upload the entire database with all comments, ideas, questions etc etc to ChatGPT
And make a chat bot available to answer all our questions.
What do you think?
Bart

[mdsalemi]

I do not know who owns the database of the group.

Bart in a quick answer: YOU DO. That's right YOU, along with the rest of the full members of this group. We all collectively "own" the database, the forums, the website, the technical manual, etc. It belongs to the entity. We're a corporation, and our "shareholders" are our members.

I won't speak to ChatGPT quite yet, as it relates to our group.

On the subject of AI and ChatGPT, today when searching for a little back up information to "help a friend" regarding a decision on whether to go with a tank style water heater or a tankless for his installation in an attic, I did a quick search and came upon this:

https://heaterguides.com/can-a-tankless-water-heater-be-installed-in-an-attic/

To someone who has no clue as to what all the parameters of a water heater installation are, and all the technical details of a water heater, it "sounds" like a plausible narrative on the matter. However, to one who DOES know, I can tell you this was "written" by ChatGPT or something similar. It's so full of completely wrong information that no human who SHOULD be writing about water heaters and their installation wrote it. If we have any plumbers, HVAC techs or engineers or handymen/women, they should get a good chuckle out of that piece of BOT-written nonsense.

Sorry to say AI has a long way to go...

[rwmastel]

I stopped reading at the section heading "Waterless Tank Heater".       

[BartSt]

On the other hand ... there are countless examples where ChatGPT can be of assistance ...

My cups half full ...

Bart

[AdelaidePagoda]

BartSt, this is a great idea, although I am not sure exactly what you mean. Can you give an example of how this bot would work and how one would determine its accuracy as highlighted by mdsalemi?
If it pulled all the answers on a that exact topic, that would be a great start as it is only using AI to refine pre-approved answers (not that all answers are accurate).
I would like a search feature that saves time by actually answering the question vs. finding matching random words as best as it can.
AI will be part of this forum, it is just a matter of time, and when member support reaches the tipping point of acceptance.

[mdsalemi]

On the other hand ... there are countless examples where ChatGPT can be of assistance ...

I've been relatively bemused, if not outright offended, by all the "bot" action on the internet. Whether it's some "virtual assistant" that has replaced a customer service agent that someone thinks can solve your problem (usually they cannot), or a bot that sorts through the thousands of virtual resumes that firms get for jobs, looking for any keywords for inclusion, or similarly, keywords for exclusion, the only way to separate (Dan Caron will love this as he's a farmer at heart) the wheat from the chaff is through human interaction.

Right now here in the USA, one of the big issues with ChatGPT is at the collegiate level, where professors must determine whether or not a paper turned in has been written by the student or by AI. That's in addition to the long-used plagiarism software that's even used at the high school level.

There's no substitute for experience. Dave Cleghorn, there's a LOT of answers in the Technical Manual, many of them are answers to questions that get asked here repeatedly. But you have to be a full member to get access to that.

[MikeSimon]

I know a lot of people that like the Pagoda, prefer the manual transmission version.... food for thought!

[Peter van Es]

Our forum does get scanned by Google, Bing and the likes. So the contents of the forum are already available to ChatGPT and its relations. The Tech Manual is largely inaccessible to bots. The difference between the forum and the tech manual is that the forum can contain incorrect information, but we try and ensure that what is in the tech manual is correct.

For instance: Google "sl113 datacard meaning". The first non-advert is a link to some posts on our forum. But nothing to our Technical Manual.
The second set of links is to Palm Beach Classics, who copied -- without our consent -- large sections of our Technical Manual and posted it on their site, as if they had produced it themselves. Our Board of Directors did approach them with a cease and desist, and they did not. Since then they have been blocked access to us (they can't access the Technical Manual anymore).

This was actually one of the reasons we limited access to the Tech Manual to full members.

After that you see a number of third party sites with old links to our Technical Manual with the datacard section (very popular as you can see) that you can now only see after becoming a full member on our site. However, the fact that these links exist means that Google determines that we are the most authoritative site on the subject matter of data cards, not just for W113 cars, but also (given their forums) W116, W110 et al.

So I would be against providing ChatGPT and the likes access to the content of the tech manual. To full members of this site, there would be no added value, in fact, as Michael demonstrated, it will lead to AI software making the content less correct.

Perhaps the Board of Directors should use a small amount of our considerable reserves to get a lawyer to write a cease and desist letter to Palm Beach Classics.

Peter

[thelews]

I know a lot of people that like the Pagoda, prefer the manual transmission version.... food for thought!

Not sure who you're responding to, but I'm one of those people.  I was 19 when my mother got her 1971 280 SL with auto.  I really liked the car, but found the transmission "different."  I'm not trying to offend anyone here, but 1st gear is good for stump pulling and the car, without full throttle starting in 2nd gear, I found to be sluggish. My mom drove that car for 17 years, Wisconsin winters and all (it was actually good in the snow). Fast forward to 2007, now 54 years old and eyeing a Pagoda, I would only consider a manual.  I did find one in a 1967 250 SL and have owned and enjoyed it ever since.

[mdsalemi]

Perhaps the Board of Directors should use a small amount of our considerable reserves to get a lawyer to write a cease and desist letter to Palm Beach Classics.

Peter, we've briefly talked about this at the board level, and I believe that due to the intransigence of Palm Beach Classics, we'd only be spending money on a lawyer without any results; a cease and desist letter is useless without backup to a lawsuit which one better be prepared to fund. Not sure anyone wanted to open that Pandora's box.

[rwmastel]

This Palm Beach Classics thing bothers me, and I have a couple questions.

1. Was it really "our" data to begin with?  Was it original intellectual property?  I mean, there's plenty of sources on-line and in books to get explanations of your data card.  Even M-B used to do it for free, but will charge you $150 US now.
2. If it was original intellectual property that they copied without permission, and if a law suit is not feasible, then as individuals can we just bad mouth them all over the internet and in the comments sections on their own web site?

Sorry, Mike.  I'm sure this has all been discussed in Board meetings, but now that it's been brough up I figured I could ask.

[mdsalemi]

Well, Rodd, as they say--"There's that too".

But, it's not as if "the information" was copied from our website, in the same way that we may have copied technical data from any number of official Mercedes-Benz technical and or sales/marketing literature.

It's the actual photos and postings--directly--that have been lifted.

I guess it's just a real messy situation that if you (us, the group) gets involved in--sends a legal letter with threats--then one better be able to follow through. That's the part that nobody wants to commit to.

Better to spend our money on things like projects and events rather than lawyers.

[neelyrc]

Not sure who you're responding to, but I'm one of those people.  I was 19 when my mother got her 1971 280 SL with auto.  I really liked the car, but found the transmission "different."  I'm not trying to offend anyone here, but 1st gear is good for stump pulling and the car, without full throttle starting in 2nd gear, I found to be sluggish. My mom drove that car for 17 years, Wisconsin winters and all (it was actually good in the snow). Fast forward to 2007, now 54 years old and eyeing a Pagoda, I would only consider a manual.  I did find one in a 1967 250 SL and have owned and enjoyed it ever since.

I am another.  Never considered an automatic. I wanted a 5 speed but they had already stopped supplying for USA when I placed my order.  Never a regret. After 54+ years, still enjoying shifting.

[Raymond]

Who lost the thread?  The beauty of this forum is exchanging ideas, triumphs, and heartaches with fellow human beings across large areas of the world.  No bot should ever be brought into that.

[mdsalemi]

Who lost the thread?  The beauty of this forum is exchanging ideas, triumphs, and heartaches with fellow human beings across large areas of the world.  No bot should ever be brought into that.

Good question! The thread devolved into standard vs automatic...I guess because some of those "must have clutch under left foot" decided that an automatic is kind of a bot.

But as I pointed out earlier, it's important to have the human interaction. As Peter pointed out much of our content is available to ChatGPT by virtue of being on the internet. For those wanting more accurate information instead of discussion, there's the tech manual...

...which you must be a full member (at a cost of $30/year) to access. The tech manual was written by all, with blood, sweat and tears. Not bots or AI. Experience.

[MikeSimon]

Ralph and John - My reference to the preference of some for manual over automatics was not to discuss the advantages/values of either one but to hint to the fact that most pagoda owners may like a more "old fashioned/manual/basic/low tech"- approach....

[AdelaidePagoda]

Interesting. When you ask Chat GPT:

User
What is the best forum for learning about w113’s?


ChatGPT
The W113 refers to a series of classic Mercedes-Benz cars that were produced from 1963 to 1971, commonly known as the "Pagoda" due to their distinctive roofline. If you're looking for a forum to learn more about these cars, one of the best places to start is the Mercedes-Benz Club of America (MBCA) forum.

The MBCA forum has a dedicated section for the W113, where owners and enthusiasts share information, ask questions, and offer advice. You can find a wealth of information on topics such as maintenance, repairs, modifications, restoration, and more. The forum also has a classifieds section where you can buy and sell W113 parts and cars.

Another good option is the Pagoda SL Group forum, which is a community of W113 owners and enthusiasts from around the world. This forum has an extensive library of technical articles, manuals, and resources, as well as a discussion board where members can ask and answer questions.

Both of these forums are great resources for anyone interested in learning more about the W113 Mercedes-Benz cars.

[mdsalemi]

…When you ask Chat GPT “What is the best forum for learning about w113’s?”
…is the Mercedes-Benz Club of America (MBCA) forum…another good option is the Pagoda SL Group forum…

And there you have it. QED. The MBCA forums are mostly dead now, having mostly been abandoned by [I can’t really speak the unvarnished truth here]. In addition to be mostly dead, they are not a public forum. You need to be a member at $55/year to see the forum there. Please don’t spend the money just to see what’s there. You’ll be sorely disappointed.

I guess we’re a good second option. We’re robust, dynamic. Plenty of activity. 20 years of information…and visitors welcome.

Sorry if anyone believes ChatGPT in this instance!

[AdelaidePagoda]

Agree Michael. It just goes to show the information from Chat GPT is only as good as the information it has access to, not behind paywalls and firewalls, and should not be taken as reliable.
I certainly would not use Chat GPT advice to undertake complex mechanical works. There is no better resource that the experts on this site who are more than willing to point each of us in the right direction for the greater good of our cars.
This is but one small example of how much further such AI has to go to develop trust and credibility with its users.