Long Water Pump resulted in Belt Misalignment

[alchemist]

I have been on the site several times in the past. For some reason, I have been kicked out and asked to sign up again. I have a 1967 230SL with a 2.8 L engine. Recently, I had to replace the water pump with a long pump following the group advice. However, when the long pump was in place, it resulted in misalignment of the belt with the alternator pully (see pics). I did not use the original spacer; I bolted the pump pully and the fan directly on the new pump with no spacer.
Has anyone encountered such a problem, and if anyone knows the answer to this misalignment? Is this a fault of the alternator or the pump? and why there is a difference in length as compared with the short pump + spacer. Thank you.

[dirkbalter]

To me, it looks like your water pump pulley is not for a W113. I will take a look at mine later and post a picture.

[dirkbalter]

Here you go. Long (4 bolt) water pump with pulley. Your pulley looks shorter? 

[ja17]

Did you delete the spacer and find 4 short bolts?

[mdsalemi]

…I have been on the site several times in the past. For some reason, I have been kicked out and asked to sign up again…

We have a robust, active forum with many members from around the world, posting regularly. We’ve been around for 20 years. We have a number of easy to follow and understand rules, all designed to keep order. If you’ve been “kicked off” before it may have been for repeated violation of the rules. The most flagrant violation is SPAM postings. Our admin knows which IP address they come from, and will ban anything from that address.

There’s also shared lists of known spammers IP and email addresses.

If you peruse this forum you’ll see we’re relatively free of such things all due to such dedicated enforcement.

[rwmastel]

Alchemist,
What Michael says is true.  Also, your account can be disabled due to LONG periods if inactivity.  So, when you say "I have been on the site several times in the past", maybe "the past" has been so long ago that your account timed out??

Dirk,
I am by far not the most experienced mechanic on this forum, but I'm not familiar with a cone shape water pump.  In this thread, bpossel has a message with attachment showing the two pumps side by side on a bench.  They seem to be cylinder shaped, not cone shaped.
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=6464.0
EDIT:  Sorry, I just realized the cone shaped part must be the fan clutch (I don't have one on my 230SL).  Regardless, this part looks different on your car compared to what the OP shows.  You seem to have much more distance between fan belt and fan blade.  Alchemist has less.

Also, Alchemist has a 280 engine.

[Peter van Es]

Actually, since we are adhering to general data protection rules (GDPR), your account will be deleted after 12-18 months of inactivity (i.e. not logging in). This does not imply being 'kicked off'. You do not need to post anything to keep current. This is a requirement for data protection from various governments around the world.

However, if you've created a new account I can typically resurrect old posts to your new account (if you've made any). Having a Full Membership offers some protection against your account being deleted because you will receive renewal reminders and you need to log in on the site to renew, preventing removal.

Contact me on admin@sl113.org with your old username or old e-mail address and I can reattribute posts...

Peter

[alchemist]

Thank you Dirk, you may be right. The water pump I bought may not be the right one. I will measure the length of the pump to the hub and compare with the old one.

[alchemist]

Hello Joe: I did not use the spacer on the long pump and I was able to find 4 short bolts in my stock. I have a collection of metric screws and bolts collected over 50 years around Mercedes.

[alchemist]

I believe the reason for my inactivating of my account is the long time in activity. In the past, I was restoring 1967 230SL and I posted over 30 threads over few years. Then I started restoring 1957 Chevy and I became engaged with the Chevy forum without paying attention to the pagoda forum. My old ID: zalsaigh. Look it up

[mdsalemi]

...did not use the spacer on the long pump and I was able to find 4 short bolts in my stock.

Isn't the spacer required on the long pump?

My original setup was with the long pump, the long bolts, and the spacer. When I changed the water pump a few years ago, I was told to go with the short pump as well as the short bolts; (at least that's my recollection but it was 2011!) that left the spacer and the long bolts from the original installation. Still have the spacer floating around somewhere.

In the original and the replacement, everything lined up. But if you remove the spacer from the long pump installation you will probably have a pulley misalignment. Of course if you have the wrong pump or the wrong pulley or both you may have other things going on.

[dirkbalter]

Isn't the spacer required on the long pump?

Michael,
the long 4-bolt (not 230) pump does not require a spacer. The pulley bolts direct to the water pump flange.

[Peter van Es]

I believe the reason for my inactivating of my account is the long time in activity. In the past, I was restoring 1967 230SL and I posted over 30 threads over few years. Then I started restoring 1957 Chevy and I became engaged with the Chevy forum without paying attention to the pagoda forum. My old ID: zalsaigh. Look it up

Your old posts have been added to this new account....

[mdsalemi]

Michael,
the long 4-bolt (not 230) pump does not require a spacer. The pulley bolts direct to the water pump flange.

Thanks Dirk, for the memory jog.

I HAD the short pump. Joe Alexander recommended the long pump as a replacement. Removed the short pump and spacer, with the long bolts, and then installed the long pump with short bolts. As I had purchased the pump through our member Dave Gallon, he wanted the long bolts back. He had supplied the short bolts with the pump. I still have the spacer somewhere.

[alchemist]

Hello: Thanks for all contributors to my thread. I am surprised to find how many different long water pumps with different dimensions are there for 2.8 L in the market place. I measured the thickness of the flange of the long pump that I installed and caused the belt misalignments to be 15 mm. Compared to the short pump that has a flange thickness of only 5 mm. (see Pic).
So, to solve my problem and to keep the long pump that is already installed is to find a deeper pully. I just need an additional 2.5 Cm to align the belt with the alternator. I did some study, and found out that the pully used in engine M110 is exactly 5.5 cm. I do have a 280SL (imported) that has an M110 engine. I measured the depth of the pully and found out that is the fix I need.
I went to e-bay shopping and found out that 5.5 cm depth pully was used on several engines beside M110 and models such as 280SE. So, far I found 2 that I am requesting the sellers to measure the dimensions. I believe that pulleys used in R107 with 2 belt grooves can also be used.
Do you guys have any thoughts about my experiment? I am a chemist after all.

[alchemist]

I finally corrected the misalignment by replacing the belt pulley by another deeper one with 6 Cm depth and 14.3 Cm diameter (see Pic). The older one was shallow with only 2.9 Cm depth and 13.5 Cm diameter (pic). I believe that the previous owner when replaced the 2.3 L to 2.8 L engine, installed a shallow pulley with short pump. Looking at Dirk's pic, his pully matches my new pully, and that must be the correct pagoda's pully. The new pully came from M110 engine installed in a variety of Mercedes in early 1970's such as 280C, 280 SE and so on.

[rwmastel]

Is this belt on inside out?  I would think the "notches"(?) would fit against the pulleys, not be on the outside.

[alchemist]

The belt is correct. It has narrow notches in the inside to fit the pully. It is how designed.