OIL PAN CONECTOR

[IVAN CANALIS]

I have a big question about ordering a new electrical installation for a 1964 230sl. Do you think this connector has been used in all W113s? It makes me think that this connection was installed later..
What is your opinion?
Greetings to all and thanks

[Peter]

Some pictures of my 280SL 1969 car before restauration

[BobH]

Hello Ivan, it looks like the 230's had a slightly different terminal block, in a different location, have a look on here

https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=36377.msg265892#msg265892

[Pawel66]

You may want to get in touch with lPeter sen on this forum about a new wiring harness.

[su8pack1]

That connector gave me nightmares for a while. The ignition switch goes through that, and corrosion kept it from starting several times until I started cleaning all wire connections. That was it. I even installed a push button starter switch under the dash when the key switch failed to work until I found the problem. 1969 280SL.

[IVAN CANALIS]

How interesting! I didn't know about this connector on the 230SL. I had only been able to see 3-pole connectors in the oil pan. It is a very important connection for its proper functioning. I wonder if it would be possible to find a 4-pole connector? As I have seen in the photos in the link that Bobh provided, I do not have this part in my car and I would like to leave it original.
Do you think that this installation that I attach is valid for both this configuration and that of the oil pan?
Best regards and thank you all

[rwmastel]

Ivan,

Is the pic in your original post of your car?  See the link above to the other thread where you see a few pics of this connector on 230 SL.  It is not on the oil pan.

[rwmastel]

You may want to get in touch with lPeter sen on this forum about a new wiring harness.

If you think those wiring pics indicate a need for new wires, then I won't show you the rest of the car.  I would need a new Pagoda!

[IVAN CANALIS]

rwmastel may not explain it well to me. yes I have understood it. The photo is not of my car. I want to install it as it is originally, connector attached to the speaker support. But I don't have the 4-pole connector that I see in the photos of a 230SL, nor do I know if the electrical wiring that SLS sells is valid by length for both mounting methods.
Do you know where they sell this connector?
Is the wiring I attached valid for both types of installations?
kind regards

[BobH]

How interesting! I didn't know about this connector on the 230SL. I had only been able to see 3-pole connectors in the oil pan. It is a very important connection for its proper functioning. I wonder if it would be possible to find a 4-pole connector? As I have seen in the photos in the link that Bobh provided, I do not have this part in my car and I would like to leave it original.
Do you think that this installation that I attach is valid for both this configuration and that of the oil pan?
Best regards and thank you all

As Pawel suggests, Leo Peterssen is the person to contact regarding all things wiring, he'll be able to advise and may have a source for the terminal blocks as well, have a search for his details, or hopefully he'll reply when he sees this post

[rwmastel]

This thread probably belongs in the electronics sub-forum, where Leo hangs out.   

[rwmastel]

But I don't have the 4-pole connector that I see in the photos of a 230SL

My vin ends in -018381.  The other sample 230SL was also a late example. Maybe your '64 doesn't use the 4-pole connector?

[lpeterssen]

Hello to everyone, here I am.  What is the new electrical mystery that needs to be solved?

Contact me through www.wiredoktor.com more info form.

Happy to help

Best regards
L.Peterssen
Www.wiredoktor.com

[rwmastel]

Mystery is, were all 230SLs delivered with a 4 post connection mounted to the bracket by the horn, or did some (lack of) options/features just need 3 connections on the block?  And, are the connector blocks easily purchased?

[lpeterssen]

Dear Rodd

Not all the 230SL have the need for this connection block. It depends on the wiring harness version you got.

This connection block is a kind of improvement that MB incorporated on the wiring design to make it modular. It means than when a part of the harness  wears out you can change it with ease

That is the case of the harness section coming from the STARTER to the ALTERNATOR which is named by some vendors as the CHARGING LOOM.

This modular design was not present on early 230SL pagodas. I have serviced recently some harnesses that didn’t have the need for the CONNECTION BLOCK or the CHARGING LOOM since the harness was not divided into section in that part.

The quantity of ports needed on the CONNECTION BLOCK depends also on the year of manufacture of your vehicle. Again here, as this is a continuous improvement process, Mercedes adopts technologies into their cars to make them run better with frequent revisions of an original design.

Early cars with connection block used only two ports. One for T50 starter selenoid signal and another for T30 which charges the battery at the loom and end.   Later cars 1970 onwards I would say use the 3 port connection block as a new signal T16 was added to bring full 12V power directly to coil positive terminal while cranking the engine.

The connection block that can be easily sourced nowadays is the one with 3x ports. So that is the one to buy either directly at MB or any specialized classic car supplier as SLS (Europe) or Authentic classics (USA).

This component is also used by later Mercedes Benz models as W116/R107, so do not pay high crazy prices for it.

Instead of asking for a connection block for a MB w113 go to the MB dealer and ask for same thing for a W123/116.

Best Regards
Leo Peterssen
Www.wiredoktor.com

[lpeterssen]

The quantity of ports at the connection block will be determined by how many signals you have going to the STARTER. There are STARTERS with three post (later ones : T30, T50, T16) and early STARTERS with only two (T30+T50)

[IVAN CANALIS]

What great information! So I understand that...
230sl
1st loading installation directly through the main harness.
2nd use of 2-pole connector.
3rd 3-pole connector?
4th 4-pole connector?

It is not clear to me when a 4-pole connector was used and what the connections were for.

When do you think the installation of the chassis support connector was changed to putting it in the oil pan?

In my case, I have the installation from the alternator regulator modified and I cannot have a certain reading of what type of installation it originally contained. It is a 230 SL manufactured in August 1964. Chassis number finished in 06298. What type of connection did it have?
Thank you all for the information.
kind regards

[lpeterssen]

Dear Ivan:

3 pole connector, started to be used by year 1970 aprox, when the T16 signal,to coil was implemented

4 pole connector, never in use on a w113, this connector should come from a much later Mercedes like w116.  Nevertheless you can give it an use on those cars if  you want an AC system, which requires a 4th signal going in the vicinity of the Alternator to the 100C degree temp switch in the water thermostat housing.

Best regards
L.peterssen
Www.wiredoktor.com

[rwmastel]

4 pole connector, never in use on a w113, this connector should come from a much later Mercedes like w116.

We have pics from a pair of 230SL (see link in 2nd post) with 4 pole connectors mounted by horn.

[lpeterssen]

Dear rwmastel

I saw the link mentioned by you. It shows a w113-230SL with a 4 pole connector at the horn.  You are right.  In that case which is new to me you appreciate that  particular connection block is used to bridge the generator/alternator signals:  3 x thin cables for the voltage regulator (red, black, brown) an 1x larger cable for the T30 coming out of the alternator to feed the system.

On previous comments we have focused on the connection block which links the STARTER bringing T30, T50 to it.

You always learn something new, thanks a lot.



Best regards
L.Peterssen

[lpeterssen]

So in conclusion we can say the following:

2 pole connector : used for bringing T30+T50 signals to starter via what is called a charging loom section.

3 pole connector: used for bringing T30+T50+T16 signals on later Pagodas with T16 terminal at coil positive post for cranking

4 pole connector: used as a bridge between main harness to sub harness that connects to ALTERNATOR/GENERATOR with external voltage regulation bringing following signals 1x T30 for energy output, 3x thin cables (brown, black, red) for external voltage regulation.

Best regards
L.Peterssen
Www.wiredoktor.com

[BobH]

I've looked at loads of posts but i can't find a definitive answer

Did all 35A alternators have the external voltage regulator?
There was a change to the alternator in August 66, with plug in connections, did this affect the terminal block size?
The 35A alternator was changed to the 55A alternator in July 1969, with an internal regulator
Would cars have used the 4 pole terminal block until the alternator changed in 1966 or with the larger alternator in 1969?

[lpeterssen]

I've looked at loads of posts but i can't find a definitive answer

Did all 35A alternators have the external voltage regulator?

I would say ….. that YES, alternators rated 35A have all external regulation
There was a change to the alternator in August 66, with plug in connections, did this affect the terminal block size?
If you have plug connections at the alternator, that does not necessarily changes the size of the connection block if installed for linking  the ALTERNATOR to main harness and external voltage regulator
The 35A alternator was changed to the 55A alternator in July 1969, with an internal regulator
Would cars have used the 4 pole terminal block until the alternator changed in 1966 or with the larger alternator in 1969?
In my opinion once you have alternators with internal voltage regulation makes not much sense to have that external 4 pole connection block, on any case it may have been changed for a 2 pole connection block, since only two wires were coming to the alternator (when you have internal regulation)

Best regards
L.Peterssen
Www.wiredoktor.com

[BobH]

Thanks Leo, this just goes back to the original posters question as to the size and location of their terminal block