Author Topic: Starter Rebuild  (Read 3644 times)

jeffc280sl

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Starter Rebuild
« on: July 24, 2005, 16:15:43 »
Decided to do a little PM today and took the starter off.  Curiosity got the best of me and I tore it down completely.  Reading on this site Joe A. said its easy to rebuild. I took a look at the brushes and discovered one of them had split.  The brush material is bonded somehow to a copper plate which is soldered to a heavy gauge braided wire.  The brush and copper bond simply failed.  I don't know when.  Also the brush was worn to the point where the copper plate was soon going to contact the motor armature.  I would imagine that when the copper contacts the brass armature the armature wears very quickly.  I'm glad I got to it before this happened.  In looking for a new brush set I discovered AC Delco brushes are listed as replacements.  I'll see if I can find a set at my local parts store.  I plan to replace all 4 brushes.  The braided wire from the brush needs to be soldered to the brush bracket.  Shouldn't be to hard to do.  Everything else looks great.

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

jeffc280sl

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Re: Starter Rebuild
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2005, 19:49:40 »
Upon closer inspection and a little scraping I discovered the brush is all carbon.  There is no copper plate.  It's painted or colored and looks like copper.  One of mine has split and will be replaced.

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

mdsalemi

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Re: Starter Rebuild
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2005, 06:07:15 »
Jeff,

I know that there are a lot of members like yourself that really love to get your hands dirty, and that's great.  However let me tell you what happened to me.

First, when restoring my 280SL, I was responsible for many of the subassemblies--things that can easily be removed and taken away--such as the starter, alternator, brakes, trim, etc.  When researching the restorers, one of them sent me a very long, extremely detailed document on what they planned on doing--including a half page on restoring the starter, with something like 4.5 hours at $85 per invested.  Well, nonsense to that!  IMHO a Bosch starter should and could be restored by Bosch or exchanged for same.  I got a local price of about $175 for exchange.  Now here's where I made a mistake...I decided I could probably save a few bucks (that thinking always leads me into trouble) and thus took it to a local auto-electric place, where they rebuilt it for something like $89.

Nearly a year later, the restorer was ready to put it all back, and did.  Starter engaged, but wouldn't disengage!  They had to disconnect the battery in a hurry!  Thinking it was a one off problem, they tried it again with the same result.  Off comes the starter for a bench test--where it seemed to work perfectly.  Onto the car again, same problem.  Out of the car again when he called me.  Do you see the time invested here so far?  Thank goodness that at the time MY restorer was only charging me $45 per.  I instructed the restorer to exchange for a Bosch reman unit.  Went in no problem and has been working ever since.

Somewhere in South Carolina is a Bosch reman facility where all they do is remanufacture Bosch alternators and starters.  Needless to say they have access to all the requisite original parts and adhere to standards somewhat greater then those at the local place, and certainly better then the workbench in my basement.

After my experience, "factory" rebuilts, when available, are my choice.  But that's just me....

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

jeffc280sl

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Re: Starter Rebuild
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2005, 13:07:37 »
Thanks Michael,

I had a similar thing happen to me when I changed my daughters starter for a factory rebuilt version.  It started fine the first three times.  On the fourth try the starter gear did not engage the fly wheel and the starter motor became stuck in the on mode.  Must have been a one time problem.  Took it back and exchanged it and her car has been fine since. New 280Sl brushes should be here tomorrow and I'll get things back together and give it a try.

Thanks for your experience.

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

JimVillers

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Re: Starter Rebuild
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2005, 14:40:26 »
Michael et al .... For $125, a rebuit Bosch is the way to go:
http://www.sasponline.com/

Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, 190E 2.3-16 Kompressor
« Last Edit: July 25, 2005, 14:42:30 by JimVillers »
Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, MGB 5-Speed, MGB GT V8 RHD (real MG), 2016 SLK

mdsalemi

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Re: Starter Rebuild
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2005, 14:48:28 »
Gents,

Jim Villers, that's a good source to file away for the next time!

The reason I recommend an exchange rebuilt is that the parts you can generally get for "shade tree work" are limited: brushes, maybe a few others.  If you have a 35-40 year old starter with bad brushes, can you be sure the armature is good?  How about field windings?  Certainly 40 year old bearings could use a replacement...the reman process checks all that, replaces most.  In fact I think they replace all but the shell.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

jeffc280sl

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Re: Starter Rebuild
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2005, 18:08:47 »
Picked up my new $2.75 brushes and installed them in my clean and freshly painted starter.  They were tricky to install because they are spring loaded.  They are also larger because they are new and not worn down.  Had the standard type problems that you normally have when you do something for the first time.  Second time would be smooth.  Its back in and sounds sweet.  Plenty of rpms on the starter motor.  Reused the solenoid and that works great.

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

bpossel

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Re: Starter Rebuild
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2005, 18:23:39 »
Hi Jeff,

Congrats!  How did you hold the brushes back in order to re-install the spindle?
BP

bpossel
Memphis, TN.
1971 280SL
1997 E320

jeffc280sl

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Re: Starter Rebuild
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2005, 15:35:09 »
Hi Bob,  

The Haynes manual suggested a wire loop to compress the brush and spring.  So that's what I used.  Worked fine.  Maybe my imagination is coming into play here.  But the starter really cranks the engine.  I think cleaning the armature and all of the lugs and connectors helped.

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed