'64 230sl soft top woes

[enochbell]

I saw this ugly soft top in a garage this morning...ok, it is my garage.  I have seen the soft top flare up like this on plenty of Pagodos, but for the two days a year I have the top up I don't want it on mine.  PO installed this top, probably about 10 years ago.  Is it missing something?  Is there a fix?

Thanks,

Greg

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'64 230sl, fully sorted out...ooops, spoke too soon

[J. Huber]

Hi Greg,

I'm afraid you have a rather severe case of the dreaded Pagoda Curl. There have been discussions on how to minimize this, I'd try a search. And, while I can't put my finger on it, something seems odd on the inside photo. It appears that the PO put a strip of canvas over the bottom edge (probably to hide a chewed-up section -- another common malady). This could be causing the more severe curl...

James
63 230SL

[waltklatt]

Greg, on the third picture-interior, that long thin wire that is bowed, should be straight and sliding inside the rear bow.  I have the same on my 1967 and am puzzled as to it's purpose.  One side works perfectly whilst the other is bending all the time.
Does anyone know what this wire is for?
Walter
1967 230SL-diesel
1963 230SL-FS

[enochbell]

Thanks, doing the search with the word "curl" added gave me the answer: seems like this is the result of improper storage.  Now if I could only blame my kids for putting this away wrong, like everything else, then I would feel better?

Greg

'64 230sl, fully sorted out...ooops, spoke too soon

[JimVillers]

The curl is caused by stretching the top around the corner when installing it.  I installed my top myself and I stretched it around the corner to get the leading corner in the correct location.  I believe that the correct installation procedure would be to stretch and glue the middle section above the trunk and then to glue the corner as loose as possible.

The purpose of the wire is to keep the fabric away from the top locking mechanism.  

Correcting the curl would require removing the top from the bottom bow and gluing in again with the "stretch" in a different location.  I need to remove the front on my top to tighten the two web straps and the front of the top.  Installing a top is a learning experience and I will do better the next time.


Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, 190E 2.3-16 Kompressor

[enochbell]

Jim, thanks, does that mean if I shoe horn the top in the boot with the "wings" forced down, and leave them there for a few days, that I will still need to re-glue?  Say it ain't so, I sure like the "fix-it-while-I-sleep" method better.  Seriously, are you saying to adjust the top on the back frame in the direction I have indicated in the pic?  Thanks for your help, I appreciate it.

Greg

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'64 230sl, fully sorted out...ooops, spoke too soon

[JimVillers]

Greg .... If the "fix while you sleep" method works, let me know.

On you photo, that is not the direction that I was trying to describe.  You need to stretch along the back lip in the middle of the top (center of trunk) to allow the lip around the large round corner to be looser.  The problem is to keep the corner loose while getting the top all of the way to the door window.

Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, 190E 2.3-16 Kompressor

[enochbell]

got it, just didn't realize there was much stretch available but I understand your tip, and thank you.  I let you know in a few days,

Greg

'64 230sl, fully sorted out...ooops, spoke too soon

[TR]

Guys -- Pardon my jumping in here.  But does this mean that if one were to install the soft top as per Jim's suggestion (i.e., stetch & glue the middle section, then glue the corners as loose as possible) that the corner curl-up problem, which I thought resulted from stowage, might become a non-issue?

I ask this because replacement of the soft top will be a project we take on fairly soon.  Mine also looks awful because of that goofy curl-up problem.

Thanks.

Tom in Boise
'71 280SL 4-spd, signal red w/lt. tan interior, restored/enhanced

[enochbell]

TR, that is exactly what we are trying to determine.  I have shoehorned mine in the boot so that the "wings" are folded medially (all toward center) of car, and will let you know if that works.  If not, we gotta go to the glue.

Best,

g

'64 230sl, fully sorted out...ooops, spoke too soon

[TR]

Greg -- Thanks; I am sure I'm not the only person who will be interested in what you learn.

I'm planning on having my interior guy perform a full re-do of my soft top and frame over the winter.  Here's what I'll be looking for as an outcome from that little exercise:
1) Use of a modern mat'l, perhaps like the type used on new a CLK cabriolet's soft top.  IE, keep a fabric "feel", yet absolutely water proof.
2) Elimination of that pesky curl up problem ... while hopefully doing away with the need to manually fold-under the "wings".  In other words, our goal will be to just shove it down into the boot, close it, and forget it...And to then have it come back out, after prolonged periods of stowage, fitting just fine.
3) Seal-up of all gaps possible between the frame/seals and the body.  Currently the front fit is excellent, but the rear areas have significant gaps.  Our objective will be no water intrusion through gaps, none, just like a new CLK cabriolet (or as close to that as humanly possible).
4) Figure out a method that will allow the soft top to be stowed without the light-colored outer material picking up those dirty/grimy marks where the soft top's material comes into contact with the inside of the storage boot.
5) Be able to do a one-hand close all the time...overcome that old & aggravating issue of canvas shrinking (while stowed for prolonged periods) and then being difficult to snap into place when the soft top goes up.

Now, I strongly doubt this one will ever happen, but if there was any way possible to put a motor drive on the top then I'd be for that too!

Tom in Boise
'71 280SL 4-spd, signal red w/lt. tan interior, restored/enhanced

[enochbell]

Tom, have you thought of asking your "minister of the interior" to accomplish world peace also?  Sounds like about the only thing you have left out...

Can't wait to hear about the success, thanks!

greg

'64 230sl, fully sorted out...ooops, spoke too soon

[ja17]

Hello Guys,
 I have installed quite a few tops. If the "self fix" method does not work, you may have to re-mount the rear top fabric, which is glued and screwed secure (under the rubber).

Consider what the other  problem may be if it is not a storrage issue. This part of the top fabric is mounted first in the center of the bow and then stretched  outward toward the corners. If during installation the installer does not stretch the top enough as he moves outward toward the corners, then he will have to make up the short fall by over-stretching at the corners. This will cause "tuck" or "flip". As Jim explains doing the stretching at the corner can be the problem.
The solution is to dismount the fabric at the rear and re-mount it stretching it more before you get to the corners. Maybe a bit tricky for the inexperienced!



Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[TR]

Joe -- Sounds like there is good reason for optimism here, at least as far as the curl/tuck/flip issue goes.  I take that as great news; thanks!  We'll get into the new soft top project during the coming winter.  Will doubtlessly have further questions once we're underway on that.

Greg -- Different subject; but before moving on to the delivery of world peace I've requested that my interior minister come up with a convenient and comfortable safety enhancement.  In this case I'm talking about new retractable, 3-point seat-belts, but with a few special mounting modifications.  I think this will be a little different than other approaches and once done suspect you may approve.  We just received a 2nd set of seat belts from Gernold.  This 2nd set was needed because our mods will require just a small, single piece of additional hardware (i.e., the chrome belt hoop) in order to accomplish what we're trying to do within a given seat belt mounting arrangement.

If I ever get the car back (hopefully before this summer is over!) I'll take a couple of photos for you.

My requirement here is that the 280SL's seat belts be as convenient, and as comfortable, as those in a new M-B.  I think we'll come close.  Of course, I won't be so bold as to say "as safe", because in my mind that may be an impossibility ... Although we're doing what we can, here and in a few other areas, to enhance safety.

Tom in Boise
'71 280SL 4-spd, signal red w/lt. tan interior, restored/enhanced

[enochbell]

Just to wrap up this issue for me, I had the dreaded soft top curl and the suggestion was to 1) stow it properly with the "wings" folde inward/medially and, if that didn't solve the problem, restretch/reglue the fabric to relieve the stretch at the leading edges.  After stowing for a week, the majority of the problem is resolved (got caught in the rain today so needed to "test"!) but the problem is not 100% so it looks like a little restretching will be required.  Thanks for all the help,

Greg

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Download Attachment: top, after proper stowing.JPG
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'64 230sl, fully sorted out...ooops, spoke too soon

[rwmastel]

Greg,

That's a very impressive improvement for $0 and very little time spent.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420