Buying first 280SL HELP Please

[n/a]

Hi, I'm in the process of buying my first 280SL, I've learned a lot form this site and others, but I need some help and hopefully some advice.

The car I'm seriously considering is a 1971, in very good to excellent shape, I checked it out thoroughly this morning and:
- I couldn't find any rust anywhere (the car has been in dry and high Mexico City all it's life, so this makes sense).
- It has been repainted in the past, almost surely to a different color that original, it currently is a cinnamon color, and under the third seat I found more of a purple color, anyway the color change was done quite well and the paint looks almost like new, though it's quite a few years old 10+.
- It is a European model, automatic, but I couldn´t find the body plate, it just wasn't there, so I have no code information whatsoever.
- The Vin numbers match, the one on the plate (on the firewall even though it's a 71), with the ones stamped on the chassis in the left side of the engine compartment and the one on the door pillar. Vin number is 11304412010795. It seems like an old production month for a 71 though. But importing cars into Mexico during those years was a long and painful process, so it could have been registered as a 71, even though in fact it was a 70
- I could not find the stamped code on the hood, which disturbed me a little (especially combined with the next piece of information), but I did find the one on the cover of the soft top and the one on the hard top, they match.
- The original engine was replaced in 1984 with a brand new engine imported from Germany (the records for the work are there, but there is no explanation), the new engine has serial number 1300161701, anyone knows what this translates to? The engine has a 280SL designation stamped on it too.
- The weld spots on the fenders inside the engine compartment are there and in good shape, and all the gaps line up well, so this might indicate either no sign of front damage, or a very good repair work.
- Engine seems to be running fine, oil pressure is way up, no smoke at all, car feels great (even though it's automatic).
- I found 2 more numbers in the original invoice (from MB in Luebeck), even though my German is decent and I understand the translation, they are not telling me anything, they are:
Gebrauchsfahrzeug  / Auftrags nummer 00205G0256 and
Fahrzeug brief nummer 66929394.
- Price is OK

Sorry for the length and THANKS A LOT for your help.

Regards

Henry

[Cees Klumper]

Hello Henry,

Sounds like quite a nice car.

As for the engine serial number, what you noted down is not the engine serial number, but rather the cylinder head casting number, for a 130 (280) engine. On the cylinder head there will also be the casting "280 SL" as you note.

The engine serial number should be located below no. 6 spark plug, on the (usually black) cast iron engine block itself, rather than on the (aluminum) cylinder head. Now since this is a factory replacement block, it may not carry any engine serial number (this was customary, the idea was reportedly that the dealer installing the engine would stamp the original engine number back into the replacement engine, and there will be a machined flat surface on the block for that purpose). If the engine does carry a serial number, you can check it against the data sheet to verify what was done. But I would not be surprised if there is no number at all there.

I may have seen this car in 2001; I was on a business trip in Mexico City then, and (besides all of the old VW Beetle taxis) the only classic car that I saw there was a very nice Pagoda.

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[Douglas]

Here's a photo of what you should be looking for:

http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/douglas/2004817213213_8d00.jpg

[norton]

Henry  If the car spent any time on the road overseas before being exported to Mexico, and as you have stated having been repainted,I would check again for rust, just to be sure.  Good luck

Mike Halleck
Chesterfield Mi
71 280SL
68 250SL (parts car)
94 E320 Coupe

[Douglas]

You mentioned that it had spent "all its life" in Mexico, but you also mentioned a Mercedes dealer in Lubeck. I believe the first "2" in the auftrags nr indicates it was originally delivered to Germany.

[waltklatt]

Henry,
I will have to ask my parents if they saw the same car years ago(10 or more) as they asked a Jeweler to make me a MB emblem to hang on a silver necklace(which I still have) and the jeweler said he made only two.  One for me and the other for the only 280SL owner (lady) in Mexico City.  Those were his words.
I did see a silver one with red interior a few years back in Cancun.
Welcome to the club.
Walter Klatt
1967 220SL-diesel
1963 230SL-gas

[rwmastel]

quote:I couldn't find any rust anywhere (the car has been in dry and high Mexico City all it's life, so this makes sense).

One quick place to look is up under the front fenders inside the wheel well.  There is a flat shelf where the inner & outer fender parts connect and you can feel up there.  If it's not packed with dirt/grime, then you might be able to wipe some rust dust off and see it on your fingers.

quote:It has been repainted in the past, almost surely to a different color that original, it currently is a cinnamon color, and under the third seat I found more of a purple color...

Original body color can be found almost anywhere.  Get upside down and look up under the dask at the firewall and dash parts.  They would all be body color.

quote:It is a European model, automatic, but I couldn´t find the body plate, it just wasn't there, ... The Vin numbers match, the one on the plate (on the firewall even though it's a 71)....

So, which plate is present and which is missing???

quote:I found 2 more numbers in the original invoice (from MB in Luebeck), even though my German is decent and I understand the translation, they are not telling me anything, they are:
Gebrauchsfahrzeug  / Auftrags nummer 00205G0256 and
Fahrzeug brief nummer 66929394.

Do a couple Searches on this site for Auftrags and Fahrzeug and see what you find.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[n/a]

Thanks to all. There are a number of Pagodas in México city, certainly more than 50, this is only one of them. It was imported from a MB dealer in Luebeck by the Spanish Embassy in early 1971, it was sold as a new MB then, so it has spend 99% of it's life in Mexico, even though it was probably delivered to the ambassador in Germany.

There is no other serial number on the engine (From the phote Douglas suggested, the 280 is there, but not the S/N), and the only actual plate on the car, is the one with the Vin number and the different weights for the car. I couldn't find the one with the option and color codes, that's supposed to be inside the engine compartment by the left shock base.

As I said, I looked everywhere for about 1 hour and could find no rust (even under the fenders and behind the licence plate pannel). I have a 1968 Porsche 911 that has also been in Mexico since new and it also has no rust, cars don't seem to rust here.

I'll look under the dach for the original color again, when I did look, it was dark, so I might not have noticed it.
Thanks again, I'll let you know what I decide to do.

Henry

[rwmastel]

Pagoda World #4 has a long list of things to look for when evaluating a Pagoda for purchase.  It sounds like you've educated yourself well, but if you can get a hold of one of these it might help.

Also:
http://silverstarrestorations.com/113SL.htm

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[J. Huber]

I am surprised this conversation has come so far without asking what "price is OK" means. Usually that is what we base the variables around, isn't it? Having said that, yes the car does sound nice to me -- and as someone who has replaced an engine, I see this is a plus more than a negative. No rust kicks it up a notch -- as does the fact that it runs strong. Assuming chrome and interior is in tact and decent and things like tail-lamps, visors, and heaters levers look good, I'd say its a winner -- IF I only knew what "price is OK" means!!

Oh and I'll ignore the line that says "car feels great, even though it's automatic..." Them's basically fightin' words  :twisted:

James
63 230SL

[KevinC]

See my attachment for what the engine plate looks like.

quote:Originally posted by cees klumper

Hello Henry,

Sounds like quite a nice car.

As for the engine serial number, what you noted down is not the engine serial number, but rather the cylinder head casting number, for a 130 (280) engine. On the cylinder head there will also be the casting "280 SL" as you note.

The engine serial number should be located below no. 6 spark plug, on the (usually black) cast iron engine block itself, rather than on the (aluminum) cylinder head. Now since this is a factory replacement block, it may not carry any engine serial number (this was customary, the idea was reportedly that the dealer installing the engine would stamp the original engine number back into the replacement engine, and there will be a machined flat surface on the block for that purpose). If the engine does carry a serial number, you can check it against the data sheet to verify what was done. But I would not be surprised if there is no number at all there.

I may have seen this car in 2001; I was on a business trip in Mexico City then, and (besides all of the old VW Beetle taxis) the only classic car that I saw there was a very nice Pagoda.

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

Download Attachment: MB Engine Number.JPG
76.86 KB

Kevin Caputo
Boca Raton, FL
1967 230 SL Automatic
670 Light Ivory
113 Bronze/Brown MB Tex

[n/a]

James, interior is almost perfect, as are the tail lights, chrome, heater levers, and Visors, all are very good(chrome around the glass is the one that might be good rather than very good). It needs rubbers for the hard top. Price is about $32,000. If you consider that importing a car to Mexico will cost about 30% to 35% of it's price, it would be a $20 to $24,000 car in the US. Add to that the cost of traveling to see the car (maybe more than once if the first one doesn't turn out to be waht I expected).

Thanks for the engine number pictures.

Henry

[J. Huber]

Thanks Henry, that brings things into perspective. I'd say the price is not bad at all -- given your description of things. If I were in the market for another -- and ran across one such as this, I'd say that the 25 to 35 range is legit. But definitely give it the once over, twice if ya can! Good luck!

James
63 230SL

[andre_morcos]

Henry,
Just take in consideration that you will be driving one of THE MOST BEAUTIFUL CARS IN THE WORLD as they have been described. the price is ok and when you start putting your hand in the car you will appreciate it. and believe me the sensation you get out of cruising in the Sl is a feeling  you will not get anywhere else. Unless you are going out with Angelina Jolie( which will only last for a while noting that she's already with brad.) No offense.Enjoy your SL

Andre Morcos (UAE)
1964 230Sl
1960 220Seb