HELP with my NEW '67 250SL

[keesing]

 :? Well yesterday the transport delivered my NEW 1967 250SL automatic - it's beautiful but...
When I drove it in North Carolina it drove well, but after unloading it here in Santa Fe, it barely made it around the block - missing on cylinder #4 and rough - I adjusted the idel a bit which helped, but not fixed. After taking it up to 60 mph it seemed to be smoother, but again at lower rpms it was rough(?)  ALSO, when it shifts I get a hesitation followed by a big klunk - bad from 2nd to 3rd and noticable from 3rd to 4th - didn't do it when I test drove her in NC, very disconcerting??? I have an appt. with the MB mechanic on Friday, and would like to go with some thoughts or ideas as to the problems - has new points, plugs etc. PLEASE HELP?

[ja17]

Hello Keesing,

If you have ever watched these transporters work you will have a clue to the problem. This car was probably moved and left to idle cold many many times before it arrived at your door. The cars on the transporter are shuffled and re-arranged at nearly every stop. These engines do not like to be left stationary at cold idle.

A fresh set of spark plugs should get you running nicely again.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[glennard]

Keesing, Am in Sante Fe.  Call 617 947 6399

[rwmastel]

John,
Basic question:  For the most part, you plan to work on the car yourself or take it to "the MB mechanic"?  I ask, because that will tell us what type of advice and suggestions to give you.

Oh, and call Glennard.  It's great to have another Forum member in your town.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[keesing]

RODD...
I called Glenn... we met for coffee and a terrific conversation about our true love (PAGODAS) -  It was great getting to know another member and share stories and information! Thanks to your great site!!!

As for my baby... I am a novice and a tinkerer... but want to do as much as I can myself! This problem got to me, as it drove wonderfully when I test drove her and was completely opposite when it was delivered. I checked plugs, distributor, and as much as I could the injection system. Cylinder 4 was very fouled and seemed to be missing speratically (?) adjusted airflow and got some improvement, but not great. Very sluggish on the take off hesitating until she shifts to 3rd, then shes fine until it downshifts. When I 1st start she has to warm up before she runs (almost like not getting enough fuel) must idle for 5 to 10 minutes and will stall out if I don't accelerate! hmmm.... :x  :?:  :?:

[Cees Klumper]

Fuel supply an issue? Search on this topic, there is a test you should do to check whether the fuel delivery is adequate.

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[keesing]

To update... When I adjusted the idle I had adjusted the screw with a spring on the front of the injection rail, near the injectors. When I re-checked the "new" distributer, the points were severely burnt - I cleaned them up and reinstalled them - car ran very well, until I took her around the block, where she stall out and began running rough again! Got me baffled... Compression is great, 125 to 132 in all cylinders. any thoughts? :x

[Ricardo]

You do have to eliminate fuel supply as a cause...it's the most common problem with our old cars when we first get them...rusty tanks, blocked filters, blocked pump screen, blocked return line....all things that need to be checked so you won't have future problems too, the "potential" list is long with these symptoms
"Great" compression would actually be 160-170 psi...
Points could be burnt from having a "red" coil without the 1.8 ohm resistor...

[Chad]

I believe that not many would call compressions of 125-130 in all cylinders "great."
Fuel delivery issues are the initial concern, I agree, but you will need to address the engine's health. These compressions are not near the normal range for this car, but it may be driveable.

[keesing]

I may be mistaken... the compression test was done by a very experienced MB tech - he gave me the numbers over the phone, saying "great news I did the compression check and all cylinders read XXX to XXX in every cylinder, so there is no problem there."

Now, having read everyones posts here... I'm not sure the numbers I stated were the ones he told me! I am so novice about all of this I had no idea where the psi should be  :oops: ... I will check with him Monday - sure hope I was wrong!

Am I correct... psi should be 160+ and close to equal in each???

[ja17]

Hello keesing,
Compression is not the issue at this time. If the car ran well before it was shipped then the immediate problem is more basic.

Start with the cheap fixes first. Put a fresh set of plugs in even if the ones in the engine are fairly new, fill the fuel tank all the way, replace the ignition points.

Now start the car for your diagnosis. These are all cheap temporary measures which can give you a lot of information.

If the car runs great for a while then we can narrow down the possibilities otherwise you will be overwhelmed by the choices!

Put an ohm meter on those spark plug wires just to make sure that you do not have a dead resistor on the end of that #4 wire!

You need to get back to ground zero. Don't take the chance that your burnt points have been resurected or the spark plugs are  all firing when installed. You may know more than your experienced MB technician at this point! Make sure the spark plugs are not resistor type!

Compression must be taken on a warm engine or lower figures will result.

Keep us up to date.



Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[rwmastel]

quote:Originally posted by Chad

I believe that not many would call compressions of 125-130 in all cylinders "great."

Chad,
This is true, but the car will operate this way.  I've put over 10,000 miles on my 230SL over the last 5 years with compression just like this.

Keesing,
Follow the advice here.  If you don't know how to do some of these tests yourself, use the Search feature in the top right corner of this screen.  Learn how to test your spark plug wires, test fuel pump delivery rate, and more.  These will find (or rule out) basic problems.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[glennard]

John, Any progress on 'Life with a Pagoda'?  I see the group is providing lots of inputs.  From the shotgun of responses, I see the systematic approach we discussed is needed.  With an unknown past-anything could have been done to the car in 30 plus years.

[keesing]

Without the PAGODA SL discussion forum - I WOULD BE LOST IN THE WOODS!
I have received tremendous assistance and wonderful advice from all of my NEW friends here!

The health of my new baby is progressing daily - I'm learning a lot of things that I wish I had known before my enthusiasm to get a Pagoda overshadowed my brain... I strongly stress that all perspective buyers READ & FOLLOW the advice given here on Buying an older SL. I read it... and then let my excitement of getting one, overshadow what I read and my common sense! Now I'm paying for the education you all gave me for FREE!

1967 250SL Signal Red
1987 260E Charcoal

[rwmastel]

You've said that you want to do some work yourself and you'll let a mechanic do other work. The more you can learn and do yourself the better.

- You'll get satisfaction out of learning/accomplishing something.
- You'll know it's done to your own high standards.
- You'll know more about the car, which will help you tell the mechanic exactly what he needs to do.
- You'll know more about the car, which will help you tell us what's going on and allow us to help you better.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[PnHi]

keesing
Don't get to down about the car.  I found my 68 250 in a field in Central PA. It had been sitting for seven years.  I got very lucky in finding an excellent mechanic ten minutes from where I live and I listened to his direction.  After a new fuel tank and fuel pump he had it running...rough but running and he got the brakes working.  That's all I needed.  I must have replaced spark plugs ten times in the next several months.  I went through the linkage adjustment several times and I got really lucky with a used distributor on ebay. The best thing I did was run it and run it and run it some more. Today it runs unbelievably well for the little  I did to the inards of the engine after sitting all that time.

Good Luck
Mike C.
Aberdeen MD
68 250SL Dark Green/Cognac

[keesing]

Because to them it was JUST-A-CAR...
When I looked at it and drove it, it ran OK?, I knew it needed some TLC, and what I found was that the previous owner just didn't respect the car or care about doing things "the right way" - when it was off-loaded upon delivery I could barely make it around the block!
After I wiped the tears and tried to explain my purchase to my wife... I got on Pagoda SL and Pagoda 113 and described my problems and my anguish - I imediatly got dozens of replys and emails from people who CARE...

New ignition points - burned severely.
New Condensor - wrong one installed.
New Plugs - they were new, but badly fouled.
New fuel pump - $1.50 one installed did not work correctly.
New fuel filter & all hoses - so dirty & gunked (never looked at).
New Ignition coil & resistor - wrong one installed.

Now, nothing was major or very expensive - I was luckey! Main thing was that the previous owner just didn't do thing correctly and the things he did caused much anguish and heartache. I never could have done this without the tons of advice and direction from the members here! I am convinced, and will tout the value of being a member here and listening to the GOOD advice!

My baby Benz drives like a dream now and makes me proud to be an owner and prouder to be a member of this wonderful site!

THANKS GUYS!
       

1967 250SL Signal Red
1987 260E Charcoal