whether to sell or repair?

[n/a]

Hello all--I need your expert help and advise on what to do with my car.  I unfortunately found and bought my 1963 Euro 230 sl before I found you all but I know that if anyone can guide me it will be you on this forum.  Since receiving the car I brought it to a repair place specializing in older Mercedes.  His initial assessment is that the resonator needs to be replaced (muffler), the radiator has leaks, the starter needed to be replaced (which I already paid to have done) and he is concerned about some rings in the piston engine.  I then had the car towed to another mechanic to get a second opion (I know knothing about new cars let alone old ones) and the second guy's assessment was virtually the same.  The rough estimate came in under $3,000...but you see ads all the time saying $10,000 invested and they are trying to get $5,000 for the car...as a stay at home mom I can't be one of those people.  I just wanted the car for sunday trips around town with the top down enjoying the so. california weather kind of car. When is is best to sell or repair? Do you think it is saleable at all with the mechanical work that needs to be done?  I have to make a decision by next week.  What questions should I ask the Mechanic.

any helpful advise you can give me will be greatly appreciated.

marti
1963 230 sl Euro
1988 560 sl

[Tom]

Marti,

Not sure how much you paid for the car.  You may have acquired the car at a bargain price, which means you could sell it now and get whole, even with the issues you found.

Th $3,000 is not a lot to get a car in good shape and reliable.  You may want to get the radiator repaired along with the muffler and just drive the car and enjoy.  Most of us can live with a little smoke.  If the rings are a bigger issue, then you may want to sell before you get too much into the car.

I would suggest you let the mechanic know your objectives for the car-you want it reliable for around the town and see if the rings can wait.

Good luck,

Tom

1971 280sl Tunis Beige Metallic (restored & enhanced)
1971 280sl Tobacco Brown (low mileage stock)
1970 280sl Deep Red (Project Car)

[Ricardo]

Hi Marti
I would just further ad to Tom's good advice, that these cars are pretty easy to maintain and aside from the fuel/injection system, most mechanics should be able to fix the problems that do arise and the real bonus is that almost every part is still available and with a little time to shop around you can buy many of the parts quite reasonably priced. You'll always find good reliable advice, here, for mechanical issues, that can help an inexperienced mechanic through tough spots. It also sounds as though neither shop saw any obvious rust issues; they may still be there, but should hopefully be minor and you may well enjoy the car for years without any major problems.
 Most Mercedes have been well maintained and convertibles are often only occasional use cars, which means that even though they are 40+ years old, they seldom seem like it. They are robust, safe and classy, plus they should go up in value over the next few years. Drive the car a lot, enjoy the happiness of owning one and the rings may well work free.
Have fun
Ricardo

[ChrisInNashville]

Marti,
I encourage you to take a long term perspective on value.   My wife is also a stay at home mom...and she took an auto mechanics class!   It's a good idea to have a basic knowledge of the mechanics for basic trouble-shooting in talking with a mechanic (something I'm still working on).

I have been blessed with a local mechanic who is miticulously honest and has a passion for these cars.  I encourage you to make sure you have the same before you embark on this journey.

[Raymond]

Marti, I'm concerned that you said you had the car towed to a second mechanic.  Is the car not driveable?  

Beyond the resonator and engine overhaul, did the mechanics assess the remainder of the car?  

Ricardo mentioned that some of the parts are quite reasonably priced.  I'll add that some are also exorbitant and many are just on the high side.  Just the fact that most are still available is great in itself.  

I don't think too many of us have spent less on our cars than we'd get for selling them.  The car is 43 years old.  For most of us, constant tinkering or trying to improve our toys is part of the enjoyment of ownership.  They are beautiful machines that require nearly constant TLC.  If that isn't you, you may want to consider a different ride.


Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe

[rwmastel]

quote:Originally posted by dougmarti

I just wanted the car for sunday trips around town with the top down enjoying the so. california weather kind of car.

Then what is the 560SL for?

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[Tom]

You can ride around in any convertible, but to do it in style, one must have the Pagoda!

Seriously, I have a 1994 E320 Cabriolet that I drive almost daily.  It's just not the same as driving the w113 car to the store on the weekends.

1971 280sl Tunis Beige Metallic (restored & enhanced)
1971 280sl Tobacco Brown (low mileage stock)
1970 280sl Medium Metallic Blue Beige Interior (project car)

[psmith]

Hi Marti,

I think a lot of us have been through what you are going through.  After we bought the car we were faced with some fairly expensive repairs early on.  This is just your cars' way of testing you to see if you're up to the challange.  Think of it as Pagoda hazing!  The good news is that once things are fixed on these cars, they don't tend to break again.  Try to do as much research as you can, and prioritize what needs to be done right away, and what can wait a while.

I'll probably get some flack for this, but if you've never taken an auto repair course, you might get two of the "Complete Idiot..." books.  There's one Maintaining Your Car, and one called "...Restoring Your Collector Car"  They both do a good job of explaining the nuts and bolts (sorry)  

You are lucky to live in So. Cal in that there a number of resources there including Millers, MB Classic Center, and a number of mechanics that know these cars.  Search this site for recommendations for your area.

Good Luck, and let us know how it's going.

Pete S.

[n/a]

Update!!!  Thank you all for responding and I thought you all deserve an update.  I left off at the part when I towed the car to a new mechanic to get the second opinion--although the car ran, the white smoke coming from the radiator and the black smoke coming out of the back and the fumes from the broken muffler (resonator) made me very afraid that I would be sitting on the 55 freeway in bumper to bumper traffic with my thumbs out.  The second mechanic was as nice and the first and basically said the same thing.  He was a little more encouraging about the car and said that he checked for rust and that although is some surface stuff the car is in good shape.  He said the radiator has leaks, the resonator (exhaust system) needs to be replaced and the seals around the windows are old and cracked...He said to do the work and the car will be drivable, safe and quite dependable.  Just my luck...the guy he has working for him quit yesterday and won't be back for 8 to 9 months...he directed me to a person he knew around the corner though....so I drove the car around the block and went to a muffler shop (he deals alot in older cars) who said he has done work on this type of car before and his best friend is a radiator guy.

Although I haven't heard the total yet I'm crossing my fingers it comes out reasonable.  I'll know tomorrow.  I am glad I decided to keep it though after seeing it today for the first time in weeks.  It was only the second time I drove it and I smiled the rest of the day.  Can't beat that.

P.S.  I loved the question about the 560 Sl...it is my husbands car and I don't think he really likes it when I take it for a drive and came back home with windblown hair talking non-stop about how fast it is and how quick it turns compared to my Yukon! Oh yes, about the auto mechanic class suggestion, I can't wait to get started!  I have been on ebay looking for books and things to read over before I sign up for one--I have the owners manual of the car only.  What other books would you suggest I start with as far as learning about the parts of the car?

You'll will the first ones I tell when I finally get to drive the car for more than 5 minutes.

marti
63 230 sl

[Jonny B]

The owners manual for these cars is quite complete and will provide you with a wealth of information.

There are two parts/pictures manuals available. The small one, the same size as the owners manual, will show the complete parts breakdown for the car, but with no individual parts numbers. You can usually find these on e-bay on a regular basis. Just watch to make sure you get one that is right for your car, I would also stay away from the reprints, as they usually show more updated information.

There is also a large parts book with all the parts number for the car but without the engine information. These also show up from time to time on e-bay but are generally expensive (150-200 range). There is a reprint available from Benz but I think it is for the later cars.

There are also other repair manuals, from Haynes (so-so), Kenneth Ball (decent) and Glenn's (also decent) which you can find on e-bay.

The other repair manual is referred to as the BBB (big blue book) and covers a range of vehicles from Benz. The one of interest covers cars from 1959 to 1967. It is written for a Benz shop, so it presumes a reasonable amount of knowledge about basic operations and mechanics.

There is also a technical manual available. This is a book that lists the various torques, clearances, capacities, settings, etc. for the car. If this is of interest, just make sure you get one that includes your year.

There are a lot of other general reference kinds of books, about restoration, racing, history, etc. But they will not have detailed mechanical info.

Jonny B
1967 250SL Auto

[Cees Klumper]

Marti - check here for a full listing of publications for our cars:

http://www.sl113.org/publications.asp

The Haynes manual (the first one listed) is a good "getting-started" manual for the DYI mechanic.

Good luck, and do keep using this forum for all your questions ...

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[rwmastel]

quote:Originally posted by dougmarti

P.S.  I loved the question about the 560 Sl...it is my husbands car

Marti,
Hi.  I assumed it was yours!  I now see the need for the Pagoda, so keep it if the rust is minimal as the mechanic says.  There are some basic tests and work you should have your mechanics perform while the car is in the shop (members - give your opinions here!)
 - compression test
 - leak down test
 - fuel pressure test
 - fuel flow rate test
 - look in gas tank for rust/sediment
 - replace main fuel filter
 - oil & filter change
 - replace radiator fluid (a given with the radiator replacement)
 - grease all grease fittings (27 of them?)

Did I miss anything?  Marti - read all of your owners manual.  There is a maintenance schedule in there and you should probably get most or all of it done if you have no history on the car.

Enjoy your new ride!

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[Raymond]

Marti, It's great that you are going to keep the car.  Your second post read so much more positively than the first.  We'll be happy to hear how you make out with the first onslaught. As Pete pointed out, once you get past the majors, you should be in for years of enjoyment.  

You can have a lot of fun learning about these wonderful machines.  A few years ago my lady didn't know much about cars.  (Except she did her own oil changes)  Through my work on the Pagoda and her enthusiasm for convertibles, she has become a "car guy".  She now has a truck and two VW Cabrios.  One she drives and the other she just replaced the engine and is rebuilding to sell.  

It sounds like you have the bug too.  Good luck, and welcome to the group!  We're here for you.

Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe

[ted280sl]

Marti,
  These cars are definitely more than transportation. The maintenence and imporvement of these vehicles is a hobby. Our members are always helpful im providing useful information. The one piece of information I have not seen as a part of this string is the mention of the CD version of the "Big Blue Book". I find the CD version quite useful as you can print the appropraite pages and dig around the car with them. You do not have to worry about getting the pages dirty as you can always print new pages.
Ted 1969 280SL w/ newly rebuilt clock from Palo Alto Speedometer