Factory original, OEM, OES, and quality

[66andBlue]

In several topics the meaning of “factory original”, NOS (new old stock), OEM (original equipment manufacturer), OES (original equipment supplied) and reproduction parts was discussed - for example: http://sl113.com/forums/index.php?topic=4690, but little was mentioned about quality.
I wish to start a discussion on the quality difference (real or perceived) between dealer-supplied parts (Daimler-Chrysler) and those sold by other vendors.  But one should know who actually manufacturered the parts for D-C for a useful comparison.  Some vendor web sites actually indicate the manufacturer and thus one can decide whether to take the risk of buying a non-factory part or benefit from the lower price.  In a few cases a D-C dealer may have a competitive price and it certainly is prudent to check. One vendor (Autohaus Arizona) has compiled a very useful list of OES brands: http://www.autohausaz.com/html/auto_parts_shopping.html

Some of the manufacturers are well known because their logos appear on the parts, for example Bosch. We also know that Bosch parts can be obtained cheaper from other vendors until D-C clamps down and Bosch is no longer allowed to sell the part directly. An example is the Euro-style headlight assembly that (in Europe at least) can only be bought through D-C.
Not as well known is the fact that most of the belts and hoses that you buy from D-C are made by a subsidiary of the Continental Tire Company, CRP or Conti-Tech: http://www.contitech.de/ct/contitech/themen/produkte/antriebsriemen/kfz_erstausruestung/kfz_erstausruestung_e.html

For example, when I search today for prices for the lower radiator hose for my 230SL (P/N 113 501 0682) I am confronted with the following options:
Local D-C dealer: $93.53;   Miller's Inc $45.00 (OES brand unknown);   SASPonline  (the vendor that Jim Villers likes) $13.31 (Brand: AKA); Autohaus Arizona: $10.51 (Brand: CRP) or $7.90 (Brand: MacKay).  What to do? D-C doesn't charge for shipping but so do many of the Internet vendors when the total order is more than $50.  Be a purist and pay $93.53 or pay only 8.5% of that for the cheapest?  
So I bought the CRP and the MacKay because I wanted to see what I would get for the lowest price. I need to add that I didn't buy from Autohaus Arizona since I hadn't come across them yet but from a different vendor at just little more.
Since MacKay is an Australian company, I asked Bob Smith whether he knew anything about them but his answer was negative.  Calling several vendors I was told by one that they are a OE supplier for D-C to serve the Australia/Asia/Japan market. I don't know whether this is correct or just “smart talk”.  However, the product looks just like my old Mercedes part, including the diamond surface pattern, and being new is a liitle bit more stiff. Take a look at the picture.  The dimensions (ID and wall thickness) are exactly the same (+/- 0.2 mm). Looking at the cross-section I count the same number of threads, but don't know of course whether it is the same fiber (nylon?).  WHICH ONE WOULD YOU BUY??

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Similar choices, although less extreme, are available for motor mounts (P/N 110 220 0217). The local D-C dealer wants $210.45, whereas OES made by LEMFÖRDER  - a respected German company now part of the ZF Trading Group that also includes Sachs, Boge  and ZF brands- can be bought for about $80.  The same goes for transmission mounts.

I wish I could find out who the supplier is for the expensive subframe bushing kit (P/N 113 586 0033) is. The dealer price is $210.45 and that's about the same the Internet vendors want.  However, bpossel bought his from Miller's at $95/kit!  Bob, do you remember who made them, and most important, are they holding up? And there was also a question whether these are for a 113 or a 108 car and are therefore a little bit taller. http://sl113.com/forums/index.php?topic=4191

So are we really getting better quality by going "original",  that is, D-C??

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic

[hands_aus]

Hey Alfred,
I think Meyle makes subframe mount kits. There is a bloke on ebay .au selling a new set which he claims to be for 113 but it has the w108 number.
Can you post/email the MacKay web address please so that I can check them out. I might be able to find a local supplier for those hoses for my car. It will be interesting to see how much they cost here.

I have bought parts from the USA (Caliber Motors, Millers, K&K Manuf) because they have supplied Genuine MB parts at prices about 1/2 the price of local MB prices.
When I had the rear axle re-built I saved $700.00.
Similarly I am at the moment gathering parts to do/have done the front brakes subframes and all shocks. So far on the brakes alone I have saved $735.00.

I have a friend who bought genuine MB shock absorbers which cost him AUD$2000.00. When he opened the boxes the absorbers were marked 'Bilstein' the boxes had the Star on them. He could have bought a set of 4 Bilsteins from the USA for approx USD$400.00 + freight. I told him to guard the boxes because they were worth AUD$1000.00.
He now looks for genuine or aftermarket parts at reasonable prices.

There is no difference in quality as the maker is the same company, however their packaging is different.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

[bpossel]

Hi Alfred,

The subframe mounts are holding up very well.  I would be interested if these were indead for a 108 vs a 113.  This would explain why I had such a stuggle in "sqeezing" these puppies into place.  Also would explain why my front sat up so high afterwards.  I ended up cutting one ring off of my front springs to get the car to sit lower and look nicer again.   :oops: I guess if I would have left the car sit higher, I would not have bottomed out so easily last week, costing me $400 in a radiator recor?[!]
Bob


bpossel  (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL  /  '97 E320

[Douglas]

Alfred,

For hoses, the construction isn't the only issue -- you also have to consider the date they were made. Naturally, the newer the better. Always look for a date on the hose, if possible.

Douglas Kim
New York
USA

[66andBlue]

quote:Originally posted by Douglas
Always look for a date on the hose, if possible.

Douglas,
I agree, but do you (or perhaps another member?) know how to translate the numbers and letters on the hose into a manufacturing date? And yet, when does an unused rubber hose become old? The one I am replacing is at least 20+ years old with no signs of deteroration. I must replace it because the wide worm-style hose clamps cut the hose.
Again, do I get better quality because I pay $93 and inferior quality if I pay $8? These price differences are just phenomenal.
Bob S,
here is the home page and some info on MacKay, they are not a small company!
http://www.mackayrubber.com.au/
http://www.ferret.com.au/articles/4e/0c03e04e.asp

Bob P
do you have a record of the part number (not Miller's) for your mounts?

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic

[113gray]

Alfred, A most interesting topic, thanks for initiating it. A factor to be considered in this discussion is the warrenty. I think it is one year for any part failure from DC & wonder if the other vendors can match that. I doubt it, but for some items, a lesser warrenty might be acceptable if the price is sufficiently sweet & quality the same. :-)     -JP-

[waqas]

Great topic Alfred. I've been purchasing parts from AutohausAz since I've had my pagoda. Their parts are very similar if not identical to D-C's. As a DIYer, my opinion on the matter is simple: the reason to go D-C is only as compelling as the difficulty of part replacement. In the case of radiator and fuel hoses, they are easy to replace, and a 10-fold price difference is is not enough to justify going with D-C. Obviously, my car is not a show car --originality is not a priority.

On the other hand, last year I got original ATE rotors and caliper rebuild kits from AutohausAz for under $50 per wheel (I'm guessing exactly what D-C would supply). You can't beat that price. My only lament is that they don't carry the full range of fast-wearing parts for these cars.

WAQAS in Austin, Texas

[JPMOSE]

Cooling hoses is one of the catagories that I am particular to being genuine Mercedes because they last for several years.  If one of the vendors offered OEM hoses, I would opt for them.  However, I rarely see OEM identified in hose descriptions (at least for Pagodas). My 1987 560SL has the original hoses and I will change them soon.  But quite honestly, they don't have any characteristics of an old hose.  It is my better judgement telling me to change them because of the age.  Anytime an OEM part is available, I go for it unless I would want the Mercedes stamp for authenticity reasons.  Since I don't show my cars, it would only be for my own satisfaction.  I do think there is some "junk" out there for Pagodas, but not as common as one would find with a higher production car.

Best Regards,

J. P. Mose
1968 250SL
1987 560SL