Pagoda or Jag E-Type?

[ted280sl]

My first car was an Austin Healy Sprite. When I bought my Pagoda 5 years ago I seriously considered an Austin Healy 3000. It was the engineering of the Pagoda over the British cars that convinced me the Pagoda is a superior vehicle. The British sports cars of the 60's had SU carbeurators. It is my understanding that they were designed for model airplanes. They are rather finicky and do not compare to our mechanical fuel injection systems.
  I heard a joke that underlines the differences. I hope that no one takes offense at this attempt to add humor to our website. Why do the English drink warm beer? Because they have Lucas refrigerators. (While our Pagodas have Bosch electrical systems, Jaguar used Lucas in the 60's.)
Ted 1969 280SL

[Chad]

Yes, non-English (such as Alfa) knew to avoid Lucas when they could. The Giuliettas were pretty much Lucas also with Solex (I believe) carbs. For the Veloce Giuliettas Marelli went in (particularly the distributor) and sidedraft Webers replaced the Solex. These are swapped in by some anting to disguise as a Veloce, but there are about ten other ways to find them out.

Anyway, I used to have good luck with SU carbs -- they can be made to be higher performing than others of the day, which is saying a lot as the general design was developed in 1906. The tweaking is easy once you get it... the problem is you are ALWAYS tuning and adjusting them, especially when you have two or three in concert, or NOT in concert.  The Astons made use of the Skinner's Union carbs also, and they seem the only ones appropriate to find under the bonnet -- at least esthetically.

In any case, these fuel injection pumps on w113 or w198 are giant steps forward of course, and they are one mark of very high end european (non-English) gasoline vehicles from the era, as far as I know. I wish wish I knew something about them... I haven't a clue.

1967 230SL (Manual, rustless driver)

[Raymond]

I grew up with my brothers telling me that Lucas was the Prince of Darkness.  I understand that the three positions on a Lucas electric switch are Off, Dim, and Flicker.

Isn't the reason the British never developed computers because they couldn't figure out how to make them leak oil?
 :mrgreen:

Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe

[Khurram Darugar]

quote:Originally posted by Raymond
[
Isn't the reason the British never developed computers because they couldn't figure out how to make them leak oil?

Ray,
    not quite....

Although im not sure but i think the Colossus from 1944 is considered to be the worlds first modern computer it was developed to break the enigma code.

Prior to that in 1837 the Analytical Engine the worlds first computing engine, a mechanical digital computer was invented by Charles Babbage.  It was made of brass and steam powered.  May have leaked some steam though!!

Both WERE BRITISH MADE
[:0]  

 



Kay
Euro 280sl LHD Auto.

[Chad]

It's been widely believed that Harvard's Mark I and Britain's pulley-powered Collosus code-breaker were the very first digital computers, but neither were general purpose and reprogrammable. Although not known of until the 1960s I think, the Germans did build the first general-purpose and reprogrammable computer... the Zuse I in the mid 1930s. The technology was not widely known of because of the war. There were Zuse II and III also, all predating the dedicated Harvard and British machines.

In any case, neither England nor "Hah-vahd" own claim to the first digital computer, and this MIT graduate somewhat enjoys reporting that.

Cheers

1967 230SL (Manual, rustless driver)

[Peter van Es]

All you computer boffins... care to give me a hand with this web-site? It's a little more modern than the Analyticla Engine, but not much.

Anyway, I uploaded some pictures of the cars I like in my previous post...

Peter

Check out http://bali.esweb.nl for photographs of classic car events and my 1970 280 SL

[France]

But Peter, at least it's not steam-powered!

Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder
Sarasota FL; Alsace France
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

[n/a]

Ok Guys...
I don't know how my post got onto computers, but to set the record straight, I beleive the ancient Greeks beat everyone by several thousand years...the Antikythera Mechanism was an early analog computer...

Go to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism

(This from an electrical and mechanical engineer...Hey Chad; was this computer discussed in Cambridge?)

R/
Joe
P.S. It was English or Saxon inspired as it did leak oil...

[n/a]

I'm shocked...I always heard E-Types, especially Series 1 or 2 cars, were fast off the line, but I'm suprised they don't coner well and have bad brakes, as seems to be what you guys are saying. And yes, the electrics are horrible, but with a total retoration, much could be improved. I'm not for total originality if it makes a car unreliable. Is the brake issue fade? As for cornering, is the E-Type CG too high or the suspension too soft?
R/
Joe

[66andBlue]

quote:Originally posted by 66andBlue
... But I believe that as a designer Albrecht von Goertz  - who is now 92 - is right up there with Paul Bracq. His 507 is my dream car and his 503 is not far behind the Pagoda. ...

Unfortunately he passed away few days ago: http://www.cardesignnews.com/site/home/whats_new/display/store4/item57512/
Another one who should have been inducted into the Automotive Hall of Fame a long time ago.  

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic

[Mike Hughes]

Lucas developed many of the avionics systems for the Concorde.  One of the reasons why Concorde never was employed for anything other than the relatively short-hop transatlantic routes is that the Lucas Avionics were only certified for four hours continuous operation...

quote:Originally posted by Raymond

I grew up with my brothers telling me that Lucas was the Prince of Darkness.  I understand that the three positions on a Lucas electric switch are Off, Dim, and Flicker.

Isn't the reason the British never developed computers because they couldn't figure out how to make them leak oil?
 :mrgreen:

Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe

- Mike Hughes  -ô¿ô-
  1966 230SL Auto P/S
  Havanna Brown (408)
  Light Beige (181)
  Cream M-B Tex (121)

[ejboyd5]

Agree with Bob G that "The Most Famous Car In The World" is a most interesting and worthwhile read.  I had a new E Type Coupe in 1963.  A beautiful car that was very fast in a straight line.  Unfortunately, the oil pressure never held up and I had several new engines courtesy of Jaguar.  At the time I needed reliable transportation so I settled on a 1955 300SL Coupe that I have to this day.  If you want to drive stick with the M-B, if you like to tinker, find a Jaguar.  I do like to tinker, and still think the lines of the E Type Coupe are the most attractive ever put to metal.  I'm always looking for a good replacement for my 1963, but so far have only a collection of books on the E Type.
Interestingly enough, I never had any problem with the Lucas electrics, but I have heard the reason the English like warm beer is because they have Lucas refrigerators.

[jameshoward]

quote:Originally posted by 66andBlue

it must have been the color combination "red+red". How about "blue+silver"? They were both in my mechanic's garage today.  
 Download Attachment: PagJag.jpg
84.57 KB

66andBlue - Alfred, is that your Pagoda in the background behind the Jag? I recall you replied to a post of mine and mentioned that yours was light blue. If that is yours, could I drop you an e-mail with a few colour/soft top related specific questions that would only clutter up this thread. My car is (hopefully) on a ship from the US and it appears to be the same combination to the one in your photograph.

Thanks,

James

[66andBlue]

quote:Originally posted by jameshoward
Alfred, is that your Pagoda in the background behind the Jag? I recall you replied to a post of mine and mentioned that yours was light blue. If that is yours, could I drop you an e-mail with a few colour/soft top related specific questions that would only clutter up this thread.

Hello James,
it isn't mine but it is very similar. I posted some pictures in this topic: http://sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=5210
Sure, send me an email with your questions, I'll answer.

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic

[ah53]

I think I'm going to get myself in trouble on this but I'm going to weigh in.  I've owned my Pagoda since 1990, I also own a 1967 Healey 3000 (BJ8) since 1981 and an XKE Series III coup since 1997.  Pound for pound the British cars combined have given me less trouble and are more reliable than the Pagoda.  I have also spent less time repairing them and less money on them than the Pagoda.  Yes the Healeys all leak oil and water in the rain but I would never hesitate to drive them anywhere.  The Pagoda is used just around town. Please don't get me wrong the Pagoda is a great car and I own one because off its refined beauty and performance but in my experience the British cars are just as capable and unfairly criticized for being finky and unreliable.  

Joe C.
'71 280sl (Smoked wiring harness)
1953 Austin Healey 100
1956 Austin Healey 100M
1967 Austin Healey
1973 XKE V12 Coupe

[al_lieffring]

It seems to me the comparison of a Jag to a Pagoda is like apples to oranges. I don't think I would trade the Pagoda off for an E type, but I would sure love to have one. So don't decide; buy both.
In the early 80's I was offered an Espada that had the hood and chrome painted flat black. I turned it down, I just couldnt see myself driving a 2+2 coupe instead of a roadster.

Al

66 230sl
113-042-10-014715
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition: not-as-rusty-as-before-bucket

[rwmastel]

quote:Originally posted by ah53

1971 Pagoda since 1990
1967 Healey 3000 (BJ8) since 1981
1973 XKE Series III coup since 1997

Pound for pound the British cars combined have given me less trouble and are more reliable than the Pagoda.  I have also spent less time repairing them and less money on them than the Pagoda....in my experience the British cars are just as capable and unfairly criticized for being finky and unreliable.

I would venture to say that when buying a car that is already 15 to 20 years old when you purchase it, the care provided to that car by it's previous owners has a lot to do with how reliable it is for you.  That said, I would expect any 40 year old Cheverolet, Fiat, Triumph, Mercedes-Benz, or Toyota to be reliable if given proper-to-excessive maintenance from Day One.  The problem is that cars that cost less, then depreciate to even lower values, often get neglected or abused and then end up years later with an undue reputation for being unreliable.  Mercedes-Benz cars cost more and are owned for more years by people who can afford maintenance & repairs, so they get possibly an undue positive reputation for reliability.   :?:

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[Ricardo]

I dunno Rodd
Seems like certain manufacture's just don't build them to last...here in N/A, Toyota has a reputation as the most reliable car, yet for many years the bodies were really poor, with a high amount of recycled (and impure) steel and rust everywhere....I venture that Mercedes was the best built production car available with a body steel gauge, thicker than any other production car and the best engineering expertise....I'd say that there has almost never been a "cheap" product manufactured in Germany and generally they are the best quality of any product available....mind you late model MB's scare the heck out of me with the over abundance of glitch prone electronic "accessories"... :evil:

[n/a]

.....I do you one better: " If lokas was the only company building weapons, there would be no wars.....now that would be great ! ! ! ! !

CHEERS !
WITT !      

quote:Originally posted by ejboyd5

Agree with Bob G that "The Most Famous Car In The World" is a most interesting and worthwhile read.  I had a new E Type Coupe in 1963.  A beautiful car that was very fast in a straight line.  Unfortunately, the oil pressure never held up and I had several new engines courtesy of Jaguar.  At the time I needed reliable transportation so I settled on a 1955 300SL Coupe that I have to this day.  If you want to drive stick with the M-B, if you like to tinker, find a Jaguar.  I do like to tinker, and still think the lines of the E Type Coupe are the most attractive ever put to metal.  I'm always looking for a good replacement for my 1963, but so far have only a collection of books on the E Type.
Interestingly enough, I never had any problem with the Lucas electrics, but I have heard the reason the English like warm beer is because they have Lucas refrigerators.

[n/a]

.....I have been in the fortunate position to have owned the sportscars that I desired most at one time or another. Finacial reasons allowed me to own only one car at the time. Not as bad as it sounds, I arrived at the decision to purchase a Pagoda because it was it's turn. ( Road & Tracks yearly comparison-test of Pagoda, E-Type 911 and Corvette did it to me....) I have owned an E-Type in the seventees, when they where still affordable, loved it, hated it, worked on it, learned from it. As this post is pertaining to your E-Type question I woun't bore you with the other cars, but go for it they are theeeeee best looking car ever produced......

CHEERS !
WITT !    

quote:Originally posted by Joe Bango

Dear Fellow Members;
Don't get me wrong...I love my Pagoda and it is my daily driver except during the winter...but lately I find myself really wanting a series I or II Jaguar E-Type...is this sacrilegious? Granted, I also would like a 60's vintage Ferrari as well. Anyone out there who has or would like to add to their Pagoda another 1960's sports car?
R/
Joe