Author Topic: Easier Oil Fiter Change  (Read 10329 times)

69280sl

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Easier Oil Fiter Change
« on: May 08, 2008, 12:23:34 »
On another thread, Richard M wished for easier oil and filter changes.

 "easier way to change the oil and oil filter;"
Richard M.

Richard, there is a much easier way to deal with filter changes.

At Blacklick '07, Jim Villers mentioned that the 190sl club had designed a spin-on oil filter adapter and was having it manufactured (in China, where else?).

I bought one and installed it about a week ago. I'm very happy with it. Since these were designed for the 190, it took a bit of fitting and fiddling to install it on my 280. What should have been a 10 minute job took a total of about 45 minutes spread out over two days.

I am not going to start doing my own oil changes,In fact, I will stick with my idependant mercedes specialist, but I like the idea of being able to go to any quick change oil place or automotive service center, if the need arises. The filter cartridge used is that for the mid 90's Nissan Quest. Even WalMart carries them.

Another benefit is if someone else changes the filter you don't have to worry about the "garden hose seal" being in place. The equivalent replacement, furnished as part of the kit gets installed between the adapter and the OEM housing. If you put it there during installation, no more worries.

Now, if only someone will make a quick acting drain plug, I will be a happy camper.

Gus

1968 280sl
 signal red/ beige/black softtop
« Last Edit: May 09, 2008, 14:08:47 by 69280sl »
Gus

68 280sl, signal red/ beige/black softtop. Car # 1084

thelews

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Re: Easier Oil Fiter Change
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2008, 12:36:36 »
I'm sorry, how hard is the filter change?

1.Unbolt the canister
2.Lower the canister, remove filter, dump oil
3.Remove O-ring
4.Wipe out canister w/paper towel (or wash with parts cleaner)
5.Lube new O-ring, install
6.Place new filter in canister
7.Fit canister to mount, with retaining bolt w/new supplied steel washer

This takes, 5 minutes?

So, this quickie oil place is going to know to drain the oil cooler on the 280s and what will they use for a new copper washer?  Also, where are they getting the new copper sealing washer for the drain plug? (All new washers and O-rings supplied with OEM style filter)

I'm all for innovation and improvements, but for a simple job like this, I don't see any advantage unless it's the ONLY way the 113's oil WILL be changed.



John
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual
« Last Edit: May 09, 2008, 16:17:45 by thelews »
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE
1971 Alfa Romeo GTV 1750

mbzse

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Re: Easier Oil Fiter Change
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2008, 13:55:55 »
quote:
Originally posted by 69280sl

On another thread, Richard M wished for easier oil and filter changes..../...Jim Villers mentioned that the 190sl club had designed a spin-on oil filter adapter and was having it manufactured


There was some discussion about this in our Forum, see posting
http://sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=3896,filter,canister
As mentioned there, if the rubber seals in the filter canister are old and tired,
the long bolt may slip and (hot) oil be spilled along your wrist and arm...
Change those O-rings and filter change is, as John writes here, easy and smooth, and non-spill :)

.

/Hans in Sweden
« Last Edit: May 08, 2008, 14:06:44 by mbzse »
/Hans S

mdsalemi

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Re: Easier Oil Fiter Change
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2008, 14:07:01 »
John,

Ease is relative.

The conversion is best described as being able to use a better readily available spin on oil filter which does a better job of filtering (newer technology) and is readily available.

At various PUB meetings you'd be surprised how many were missing the rubber hose washer.  Astounding number; meaning oil wasn't being filtered.

The cartridge style is strictly "buy in advance".  You won't find it in stock anywhere except perhaps a dealer that does a good trade in old cars like Caliber.

The spin on is available ANYWHERE as noted.

So, ease is one thing.  The ability to have it done at a place that properly disposes oil is a plus--not for everybody, but certainly a big deal for many.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

thelews

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Re: Easier Oil Fiter Change
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2008, 14:50:14 »
quote:
Originally posted by mdsalemi

John,

Ease is relative.

The conversion is best described as being able to use a better readily available spin on oil filter which does a better job of filtering (newer technology) and is readily available.

Better is debatable.  The whole setup appears very similar to my 2001 BMW

At various PUB meetings you'd be surprised how many were missing the rubber hose washer.  Astounding number; meaning oil wasn't being filtered.

Agree, they shouldn't be changing their own oil and better have a knowledgeable mechanic if they're driving a 113.

The cartridge style is strictly "buy in advance".  You won't find it in stock anywhere except perhaps a dealer that does a good trade in old cars like Caliber.

Bought mine eight minutes away at www.blackforestllc.com day of the change.

The spin on is available ANYWHERE as noted.

So, ease is one thing.  The ability to have it done at a place that properly disposes oil is a plus--not for everybody, but certainly a big deal for many.

As I said, if it's the ONLY way the oil will get changed, it's a plus.

What about the copper drain plug washer?

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America



John
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE
1971 Alfa Romeo GTV 1750

mdsalemi

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Re: Easier Oil Fiter Change
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2008, 18:01:46 »
John,

I remember Jim Villers saying something about the quality of the filter material in terms of how much better it filters than the cartridge style.  It was significant, but of course it only is one reason to make such a change.

The need to change the copper washer every time you pull the drain plug is unnecessary.   Most cars have drain plugs and most cars have spin on filters.  They change this washer only when it needs changing.  Yes, every time you change the filter is great but not really necessary. Yes, over time--a long period of time--they will need to be replaced.  When you do, just do it.  These are not hard to come by--buy a few and stick them in your glovebox...

It's great you live so close to Blackforest LLC.  What does the rest of the world do?  We order them in advance and keep them on the shelf.

I have not made the change and it isn't likely I will.  However it was a novel idea, well executed by the folks at the 190SL group, and worthy of admiration as opposed to dismissal--even if it isn't for you.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

thelews

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Re: Easier Oil Fiter Change
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2008, 19:20:13 »
quote:
Originally posted by mdsalemi

I have not made the change and it isn't likely I will.  However it was a novel idea, well executed by the folks at the 190SL group, and worthy of admiration as opposed to dismissal--even if it isn't for you.


Stocking filters is no biggie, they're cheap and good to have on the shelf.  Easily purchased from many places, as you know.  I'm still not convinced on improving filtering capabilities with cars going into the seventies.  Pretty basic technology and at the rate most of us drive these cars and change oil, not exactly heavy duty demand.  That said, I agree that improvements and innovations are worthwhile.  I just feel they're a better value for the money, time, effort and lack of originality when they really address a PROBLEM.  Oil filter changing is really not a problem for someone with even novice mechanical abilities.  In fact, it's actually kind of fun, what with the different pieces and high quality materials that MB used on the 113.  Now, improving headlights for night driving with Halogens or better, relays to take the load off irreplaceable switches, inconspicuous sound systems that greatly enhance sound quality, tools to make tuning the car more precise...these things I'm in favor of in addressing a shortcoming in the car or a tool to enhance the quality of performance or repair.  Likewise with many of the body and painting materials today...much better.

BTW, I'm a regional director of the 190 SL Group and know Jim Villers well.  Very capable and nice fellow.

John
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual
« Last Edit: May 08, 2008, 19:23:13 by thelews »
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE
1971 Alfa Romeo GTV 1750

waqas

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Re: Easier Oil Fiter Change
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2008, 19:56:32 »
The copper washer is a hollow crush washer. You can crush it once or MAYBE twice, but after that it is pretty much useless and could even CAUSE the drain to leak oil. I always replace it each time I remove the drain plug.

I see nothing wrong with folks who want to use a spin-on adapter, but I myself prefer the old setup. However, I see everything wrong with folks who want to install a chevy v8...

Waqas in Austin, Texas
Waqas (Wa-kaas) in Austin, Texas

Paddy_Crow

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Re: Easier Oil Fiter Change
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2008, 20:17:21 »
My feeling on copper washers is replace them when they leak.

thelews

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Re: Easier Oil Fiter Change
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2008, 20:40:32 »
Why do the filters come with a rubber O-ring, copper crush drain washer, copper oil cooler drain washer and steel oil filter bolt washer if they didn't expect them all to be changed every time the filter is changed?

John
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE
1971 Alfa Romeo GTV 1750

psmith

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Re: Easier Oil Fiter Change
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2008, 23:57:29 »
I changed the oil and filter just before the big drive last weekend and I always stop and admire the the oil filter cannister when I have it off the car.  As an engineer myself, I appreciate the robust design and pure functionality of parts like these.

Pete S.

mdsalemi

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Re: Easier Oil Fiter Change
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2008, 09:37:11 »
Well, you know--some are just missing the point.

Yes, it's kind of neat to have a well made, fully cast and machined oil filter canister assembly with all kinds of gaskets, through bolts, washers, etc.  Some engineers may like or appreciate this.  Other engineers will simply say it is an inelegant solution.  The truth of the matter is it was a leftover relic from the 1950's.

A spin on oil filter is an elegant solution.  One simple highly efficient filter assembly.  No washers, no bolts, no hidden gaskets.  One small, simple and inexpensive part to replace many.  That's elegance.  You don't have to like it, just appreciate it.  After all if the complexity of the canisters was something so great, it would be the standard.  It isn't.  It's ancient history.  Like lever shocks, mechancial ignition, and goodness knows how many other archaic things.  Most every car today has a spin on oil filter--including Rolls Royce, Ferrari, MB, BMW--that should tell you something.  People who make cars that cost multiples of 6 figures and are known for highly engineered products are not using multiple-piece canisters.  They use spin ons.  Hmmm....

Make no mistake--those of you reading this here represent but a portion of the owners of W113's on the road!  That's why so many of these cars that we find have missing parts, like those on the oil filter assembly!  KISS.  Keep it simple...  Our cartridge filter assembly is anything but simple and explains why we've seen missing parts in it.

Yes copper crush washers should be replaced if you have them.  It's not the end of the world if you don't.  I still leak a drop of oil out of the drain plug over the winter even with a new washer and new plug.  A better solution is a bonding washer, with a neoprene seal on it.  You'll never leak.  My service place goes one step further--they nearly ALWAYS change the drain plug with new!  Why?  The tapered [pipe] threads are deformed each time you take it in and out.  Perhaps a bit extreme, but nonetheless they don't want anyone calling them out on an oil leak when their $100,000 new Mercedes leaks a drop of oil on their $5,000 epoxy garage floor.  Some people are just that way!

But you know, all spin-on's include a built in O-Ring, and many OEM spin on's include the crush washer...some aftermarkets make you buy the washer separately.

Frankly, though--the oil filter and the drain plug are really mutually exclusive.

Some of the innovations mentioned such as halogen replacements for example have been around for many decades; they are not really in the same boat as this newly engineered product.

If you don't like it for goodness sake don't buy it.  But appreciate the effort that went into designing, testing and manufacturing it, and appreciate the fact that there are people out there who recognize problems and find solutions for them.  The fact that it may not be a problem for you specifically doesn't mean that it isn't a challenge for others; remember Richard Madison asked for an easier way!  Changing oil and the requisite disposal is a huge problem for some.  Changing oil means you are dealing with some quantity of used oil.  The spin on adapter allows, for those who choose to use it, a more reliable and confident visit to a quick oil change place, but that's only one reason.

I'm sure Jim Villers and those on in the 190SL group who devised, designed, prototyped, tested and finally, manufactured this didn't do it because they had nothing better to do.  They solved a problem.  Maybe not yours, but a problem nonetheless.

For those wanting an easier way to drain the oil there are ways.  You can use that method where the oil is "sucked out" of the dipstick hole.  You can also install a capped valve in place of the drain plug.  Remove the cap, turn the screw and out comes your oil.  I've added this not to my car, but to my high pressure pumps at the car wash that need to have the oil changed.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

glennard

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Re: Easier Oil Fiter Change
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2008, 10:30:28 »
Check out 'Oil Filter Washers and Seals'  started by bpossel on 2 Dec 2004.

thelews

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Re: Easier Oil Fiter Change
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2008, 10:33:41 »
quote:
Originally posted by mdsalemi

Well, you know--some are just missing the point.

agree

A spin on oil filter is an elegant solution.  One simple highly efficient filter assembly.  No washers, no bolts, no hidden gaskets.  One small, simple and inexpensive part to replace many.  That's elegance.

No ability to "read" the canister, ie. look inside for sludge, discoloration, metal shavings, etc., get a jump on potential issues  

Most every car today has a spin on oil filter--including Rolls Royce, Ferrari, MB, BMW--that should tell you something.  People who make cars that cost multiples of 6 figures and are known for highly engineered products are not using multiple-piece canisters.  They use spin ons.  

Not true, my newer BMWs (1999 and 2001)and the newer M-Bs (>1995???) do not use complete spin on unit..but a canister with removable filter more like the 113, albeit more conveniently located and with more sophisticated filtering (more on that later!).  That tells me something, especially the change back by M-B. American cars stuck to spins ons though.

But appreciate the effort that went into designing, testing and manufacturing it, and appreciate the fact that there are people out there who recognize problems and find solutions for them.  The fact that it may not be a problem for you specifically doesn't mean that it isn't a challenge for others; remember Richard Madison asked for an easier way!  Changing oil and the requisite disposal is a huge problem for some.  Changing oil means you are dealing with some quantity of used oil.  The spin on adapter allows, for those who choose to use it, a more reliable and confident visit to a quick oil change place, but that's only one reason.

I appreciate the effort, they did a nice job.

Spin on filter is LESS environmentally friendly with the "throw away" canister.

As I said before, if the spin on adapter motivates an owner to change his oil more regularly than he otherwise would, it's a good thing.




Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America



BTW, be sure to change your oil BEFORE you put it away for the winter.

John
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual
« Last Edit: May 09, 2008, 16:16:16 by thelews »
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE
1971 Alfa Romeo GTV 1750

mbzse

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Re: Easier Oil Fiter Change
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2008, 13:33:13 »
quote:
Originally posted by thelews
Not true, my newer BMWs (1999 and 2001)and the newer M-Bs (>1995???) do not use complete spin on unit..but a cannister with removable filter more like the 113.../...
Spin on filter is LESS environmentally friendly with the "throw away" cannister


As I understand it, this aspect was a strong motivator behind this BMW/Mercedes return to canister/insert oil filter setup

/Hans in Sweden
« Last Edit: May 09, 2008, 13:35:13 by mbzse »
/Hans S

wwheeler

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Re: Easier Oil Fiter Change
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2008, 15:21:38 »
A friend of mine has a new 2007 Chevy Malibu and it has the canister type oil filter.

I was stunned when I saw it.

He says he likes it better than the spin-on filters. Is this the new direction for car mfg's?

Wallace Wheeler
Texas
'68 280 SE 111
Wallace
Texas
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Raymond

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Re: Easier Oil Fiter Change
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2008, 20:20:19 »
Here in Jacksonville, there are at least four places I have found that stock our cannister filters, and I haven't looked that hard.  

I like Jim Villers.  He's been terrifically helpful with suspension advice.  I love the concept of the spin-on and the minute improvement in filtering.  However, these adapters were engineered by fitting on a 190. I saw a fellow install one of these on a '71 280 with an automatic.  The cooling lines to the automatic transmission interfered with the position of the 190 spin-on adapter. He had to get a piece of billet aluminum and make a spacer to move the filter about a half-inch out from the block.  This wouldn't be a problem on a manual.  

I'm going to keep the cannister and change the oil every 3,000 miles.

Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe
Ray
'68 280SL 5-spd "California" Coupe