Author Topic: subframe mounts  (Read 9366 times)

jsaylor

  • Guest
subframe mounts
« on: November 28, 2004, 03:39:44 »
So any major challenges w/ replacing subframe bushings?
I'm prety sure mine are shot.  Any tricks, do's don'ts...  Any hints would be helpfull.
Thanks,

Jim Saylor
Kauai, Hawaii
'65 230SL

hands_aus

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • Australia, Queensland, Brisbane
  • Posts: 1543
Re: subframe mounts
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2004, 06:11:35 »
Hey Jim,

Have a look at this site. http://www.mercedesshop.com/diy_108_subframe.htm

It will explain and show you how to do it.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto
Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL #114, auto, ps , 717,717
best of the best

gugel

  • Full Member
  • Silver
  • ****
  • USA, CA, Rolling Hills Estates
  • Posts: 302
    • CPE Site
Re: subframe mounts
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2004, 15:59:47 »
Make sure you only unhook one side of the subframe at a time.  Unhooking both sides does make it a little easier to get the new mounts in, but makes it much harder to line up the subframe when reinstalling it (ask me how I know).  That thing is heavy!!

Chris Earnest

George Davis

  • Guest
Re: subframe mounts
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2004, 09:38:26 »
Jim,

First, like Chris said, one side at a time; also don't lower the subframe much more than you need to, interesting things can happen.
Do remove the horns, the subframe can hang on one of them as it's being lowered.
Good time to replace front brake hoses if they are old, although some members have done the job without disconnecting them.
Do completely remove the little cross-arm that connects body to subframe at rear of subframe.  Again, can cause things to hang up if only one end is disconnected.
Removing the CSV makes it a lot easier to loosen the big sub-mount bolt on that side.
Excellent time to replace motor mounts if they are old.
Save final tightening of all of the sub-mount bolts until you've got both sides done.
All in all it's not a bad job and the result is a nice improvement.  Good luck!

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual

Ben

  • Guest
Re: subframe mounts
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2004, 03:42:17 »
quote:
All in all it's not a bad job and the result is a nice improvement.


How does one know they are bad, what are the symptoms. I had my subframe off about 2 years ago and everything looked in great shape but I'd like to know for certain !

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.

George Davis

  • Guest
Re: subframe mounts
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2004, 10:00:18 »
Ben,

The link in Bob's post has pictures of the mounts.  If a visual inspection indicates the rubber is deteriorated, that's a sure sign.  But even if the rubber LOOKS good, the mounts may still be in need of replacement.

Symptoms could include noise and a bit of looseness or vagueness in the front suspension and steering.  But basically, if you don't know how old they are, I'd assume they are as old as the car and need replacing.

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual

Ben

  • Guest
Re: subframe mounts
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2004, 10:55:54 »
Thanks George, I think I'll budget for them early in the new year. They did look okay but I'd sooner cross them off my list as I will be going through the front end shortly so it'd be foolish to leave them !

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.

merrill

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Austin
  • Posts: 1372
Re: subframe mounts
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2007, 10:47:02 »
Jim,
did you get the front subframe mounts changed?
did you follow the procedure outlined from mercedes shop?
if not what did you do differently?

my motor and tranny are out so I ordered new bushings.
I figured this would be easy to do since I can get into the engine compartment.

matt

Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230
Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230

jsaylor

  • Guest
Re: subframe mounts
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2007, 11:19:29 »
Matt,

I havn't gotten to it yet.   Had more pressing issues to do first.  Replaced rocker pannels and some floors and rebuilt rearend, brakes and suspension.  She is @the paint shop now.  There was a link to a well documented procedure somewhere in this forum, step by step w/ photos.

Good luck!

Jim Saylor
Kauai, Hawaii
'65 230SL

bpossel

  • Guest
Re: subframe mounts
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2007, 04:45:46 »
Hi Jim,

I found that replacing my subframe mounts a challenge.  But you can do it.  Here is a post from earlier.
http://index.php?topic=4191,mounts

Good Luck!
Bob


bpossel  (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL  /  '97 E320

merrill

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Austin
  • Posts: 1372
Re: subframe mounts
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2007, 12:03:09 »
So, completed the R/R of the sub frame mounts on my 66 230 sl this Sunday.  After reading several posts and the link to the 108 instructions, I must admit I was hesitant.  So, it is a big job, but since the motor and transmission were out of my car it really was not that big of a deal. So, If you have the motor out now is the time to R/R the sub frame and motor mounts.

Below is some feedback.

My sub frame mounts were stuck to the sub frame on both sides.  So, to save time, before lowering either side of the sub frame, remove the 4 chassis bolts and the cover, then put the 4 chassis bolts back in.  That way when the sub frame is lowered, with the large bolt removed the mount will pop out of the sub frame.  From there one can remove the 4 bolts and then the mount is free to be removed,

 I tried to follow the 108 instructions, and undid one side of the sub frame only, and of course did not have enough clearance to get the mount out.   So, rather than force the free side down,  I ended up removing the 4 bolts on the other side, which allowed the whole sub frame to drop and the mount was easily removed. I did this on both sides.

The first time I tightened the large sub frame mount bolt the mount twisted so the 4 chassis bolts did not line up.
Once the new mount is in place, before securing anything, hand screw the large bolt, then raise the sub frame not quite all the way and hand tighten the 4 chassis bolts without the cover, letting the bolts pull the mount to the chassis.  This will allow for one finish to raising the sub frame, then tighten the large bolt and keep the whole mount straight when tightening the center bolt.  

As far as aligning the longitudinal springs, before I unscrewed any of the spring bolts I took a metal brush and cleaned the metal all around the springs.  Then took a permanent marker and outlined the location of the springs.  Honestly, it appeared that they bolted back up in place.   I will have the alignment checked once I get the car back on the road.

When nearing completion, I hand tightened all bolts, then re installed the shocks, brake lines, tires etc, shook the front of the car, lowered the car onto the wheels, shook the whole car, then torque the large sub frame bolt, the 4 chassis bolts, then the centering rod, then; if they line up; the spring bolts.

As an after thought, since I removed all of the 4 chassis bolts on both sides to gain clearance to get the mounts in and out, I wonder if I had purchased 4 long bolts, maybe 3 inches long, and put them in the opposite side of the sub frame one is trying to replace.  That way once could loosen the opposite side up to say 2.5 inches without having the sub frame completely loose.  Then once the mount is in, all one would have to do is tighten the bolts up and the frame should be mostly lined up.   I think the trick would be to find such long bolts.

I also wonder if by removing the chassis bolts from both sides of the sub frame If I could have skipped unbolting the springs.  The springs did not really move much when I dropped the sub frame.  There are 2 bolts holding the spring on. A front and rear.  I noticed the front of the spring did not drop at all, the rear did drop but never actually cleared the bolt.  I could have left the nuts on, but loosened.

My old mounts were about ¼ of an inch shorter than the new mounts.  Otherwise they looked ok.  The whole job took me about 5 hours.   If the motor is out I would rate this job a 5 out of 10 on the difficulty scale.         


Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230
Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230

waltklatt

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA
  • Posts: 1132
Re: subframe mounts
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2007, 13:50:28 »
Not to raise an alarm here.  But are the subframe mounts the same for the W113 and the others?  Others meaning the W108, W109, W110, W111 and W112.  
Walter
1967 220SL-diesel

J. Huber

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Cedar Ridge
  • Posts: 3061
Re: subframe mounts
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2007, 15:05:51 »
Hey Walt. I don't think they are the same. Mine clearly were for 113s. I think the references to 108s here are because there was a good write-up about changing the mounts (that happened to be 108s)...same general procedure.



James
63 230SL
James
63 230SL

waltklatt

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA
  • Posts: 1132
Re: subframe mounts
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2007, 16:00:05 »
Thanks James,
I knew that already, but wanted to poke the collective if they knew too.
The W113 ones are shorter than the others and are not the same.  
If one uses the others, the engine will sit higher and many things will be difficult, out of adjustment, etc.
Walter
1967 220SL-diesel

J. Huber

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Cedar Ridge
  • Posts: 3061
Re: subframe mounts
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2007, 17:08:17 »
Sorry Walt -- but I am a little like Arnold Horschaaaak.

"Ooo-ooo I know, I know!!"

James
63 230SL
James
63 230SL

waltklatt

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA
  • Posts: 1132
Re: subframe mounts
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2007, 12:15:04 »
No worries there James.
I've made some big mistakes before on the SL.  The first one I sold I restored it from top to bottom, with the exception of the mechanicals.  I started with a complete car and an empty bucket.  By the time I was finished, I had about a handful of bolts, screws and clips leftover in the bucket.  So the car is still around?  I don't know.  This was my first SL restoration, and I was in high school.  Now it's the opposite, not enough bolts, screws, etc.  I am always hunting for the bits from the big buckets from the junkyard trips.  The first 280SL had the wrong mounts in as I didn't know the difference and then had problems with the motor and tranny.  Then I found out the difference in the mounts and prices.  Bit the bullet and replaced them again.  All the problems were gone.
Then sold the car.  It was a 1968 280SL #00618.
Anyone here have that car?
Walter
1967 220SL-diesel-#19022