I think I need to buy this bad boy....

[n/a]

Hi folks:

New to the vintage SL scene, currently driving a mint 02 C320 and very happy with it at 28K.  Also ridin' a 2002 BMW K1200LT motorsickle. Been lurking and have read a lot of posts - WOW, is there a lot to know!

My dilemma:

An available 1970 "Champagne" (that's what the owner calls it - kinda pukey gold - sand beige?) 280SL with the hardtop option, 4 speed with brown leather and jump seat, disc brakes. About 5 years ago it had the motor re-done, brakes, tranny, shocks, exhaust by a VERY reputable wrench here in Tucson - supposedly the bill was $11K with receipts.  I'm pretty sure the motor was "stuck" at that time from sitting but it now fires right up and runs great. Paint is pretty darned good, new tires, correct hub caps -a very original car and very roadworthy - it has been driven a couple of times a month since the mechanicals were done and kept inside. No rust - an AZ car as far as I can tell. Mileage about impossible to verify, but the car HAS been taken care of and does not show any signs of excess wear - I would GUESS it has 80 to 100K on it, but who knows... it runs great and does not puke any oil - anywhere.

Now the bad:

It needs a new top, seat covers, interior, carpet, dash knobs, seat belts, etc. to bring it back to respectable status, although it looks darned good on the outside.  I guess the best way to describe the interior is that it is dried out.  Very minor chrome pitting, dings, etc. on the exterior. A looker. Complete. No AC.  I would rate it as a 3+ and want to bring it up to a 2+.  A "1" is out of the question since I'm not THAT crazy and actually DRIVE my stuff!

I own a motorcycle seat re-man business so have the tools to do the interior - and the time - and the contacts for the original OEM Mercedes seat covers, carpet and top at wholesale. (40% off retail)

$20K is the ask, and supposedly this is a "rare" (uh-huh...)car since it is NOT auto, pale color for females, drum brakes and supposedly only 30 with these "manly" options were imported to the US. I guess the jump seat counts for something as well?  This all according to the owner...

What would a ballpark figure be to re-do the interior, providing I supply all the labor?  It's all there, just needs a lot of refreshing and detailing. The knobs, lever, dash and plastic bits, etc. are the ones I'm concerned about sourcing.
 
Not afraid to take on a project but I want to know my labor will be well compensated if I decide to sell it in 5 years or so. I'm willing to put a year in to bring it up to a high level.
 
Should I go for it? I am so confused. Anyone got a hankie?  

[Naj ✝︎]

Ron,
Welcome to the group.

This may help:

http://www.oursl.com/NewsLetter/NL0702/SLMarket.htm

naj

68 280SL

[tuultyme]

Welcome Ron
I have about 5K in my interior for material; leather and carpet.  I had the dash pieces covered, cost added to the leather cost.  I did replace some of the floor chrome pieces and the seat pads also.  Other wise I did the work myself encluding all removal and installation. I redid the wood a couple years before the rest of the interior redo.

Bruce; 268Blaugrun(green) 1970 280SL; IL

[nick350]

think ya kinda ought ta look at the recent post showin' a pretty darned kinda perfick gold /beige bad boy in this there forum. Now, that I'd trade for any old cotton pickin' motasickle that ya ridin' anyday...I tell ya what.

don't go lurkin'.........

Nick350
r107 SL red
w113 SL white

[glennard]

Drum brakes on a '70?

[Douglas]

Sounds like an excellent candidate. Solid body with a tired top and interior is a favorable scenario. The claim of only 30 being outfitted with those options is bogus, but that's of no consequence. I can forgive a little hype. Heater levers, knobs, steering wheels, etc. are all readily available, so that's not a factor. If the body is truly good (straight & accident- and rust-free), then you've probably found something.

Douglas Kim
New York
USA

[ted280sl]

Ron,
  I feel very comfortable telling you that these cars are a joy to drive. It is my understanding that most US cars imported in 1970 were automatic. That makes this car a bit rare but, I believe more enjoyable to drive. Financially I hope that these cars are an outstanding investment but, I do not believe I have a chance of recouping the money I have invested in my car. I believe there is an expression that when you die he who has the most toys wins. Well I have an interesting toy which I have no regrets buying.  
Best of luck,
Ted
PS: I would look into getting the build card to see just how original the car really is. The build card will provide a detailed description of what was in the car when it was built.

[sjiatrou]

Naj:
Thanks for the link!  I particularly appreciate that section on 230sl
s  Ok, I'm braggin', the Holy-Grail he describes is mine!  The rear-end has since been rebuilt/restored by Classic Coachworks in Monterey.  I intend to keep this car as original as possible.

Ron:
The manual transmission is my weapon of choice for an open "sports car."  But my $0.02 on color:  for the money it will cost to repaint the entire car (including interior dash etc.) and to redo the interior etc. it seems that you could find a high quality 280 in a color you can live with (or actually like.)

Steve

quote:Originally posted by naj

Ron,
Welcome to the group.

This may help:

http://www.oursl.com/NewsLetter/NL0702/SLMarket.htm

naj

68 280SL

Steve Iatrou
Seaside, CA
1964 230sl roadster
White (050)/Black (116)

[KevinC]

I would guess that $5K would be about right, having just done my seats and carpets got about $2K... but of course, this is from a guy with a light ivory automatic with rear drum brakes so what do I know? Oh right, power steering, too. Guess I will go use the ladies room now.    

quote:Originally posted by tuultyme

Welcome Ron
I have about 5K in my interior for material; leather and carpet.

Bruce; 268Blaugrun(green) 1970 280SL; IL

Kevin Caputo
Boca Raton, FL
1967 230 SL Automatic
670 Light Ivory
113 Bronze/Brown MB Tex
2007 Lava Gray Audi Q7

[KevinC]

I believe that the 113 featured on the MB USA Classic Center website is Sand Beige.

http://http://www.mbusa.com/heritage/classic-center-california.do

Kevin Caputo
Boca Raton, FL
1967 230 SL Automatic
670 Light Ivory
113 Bronze/Brown MB Tex
2007 Lava Gray Audi Q7

[n/a]

quote:Originally posted by KevinC

I believe that the 113 featured on the MB USA Classic Center website is Sand Beige.

http://http://www.mbusa.com/heritage/classic-center-california.do

Kevin Caputo
Boca Raton, FL
1967 230 SL Automatic
670 Light Ivory
113 Bronze/Brown MB Tex
2007 Lava Gray Audi Q7

Yep, that's the color.  It has about a 10 year old paint job, but the weird thing is the dash paint is kind of a light beige - not "gold" like the exterior.  Not even close.

I'm thinking the original color was the "light beige"....?

[n/a]

quote:Originally posted by KevinC

I would guess that $5K would be about right, having just done my seats and carpets got about $2K... but of course, this is from a guy with a light ivory automatic with rear drum brakes so what do I know? Oh right, power steering, too. Guess I will go use the ladies room now.    

quote:Originally posted by tuultyme

Welcome Ron
I have about 5K in my interior for material; leather and carpet.

Bruce; 268Blaugrun(green) 1970 280SL; IL

Kevin Caputo
Boca Raton, FL
1967 230 SL Automatic
670 Light Ivory
113 Bronze/Brown MB Tex
2007 Lava Gray Audi Q7

Just remember to put the lid down.  

I'm gonna go smoke a ceegar, or drink beer out of the bottle, or sumpin' like that.  :twisted:  

[n/a]

quote:Originally posted by naj

Ron,
Welcome to the group.

This may help:

http://www.oursl.com/NewsLetter/NL0702/SLMarket.htm

naj

68 280SL

Many thanks for that link - I'll do a little studying.

Also many thanks to everyone else for the replies - all good stuff!

I'm going to have a chance to drive it for a few hours Monday, then put 'er up on jacks in my shop and slither around underneath for a while with a flashlight.  May even let it sit overnight to see if it pees out any interesting fluids. I can handle the cosmetic stuff, but from what I have gathered it can get REAL interesting when it comes to the mechanicals... [:0]

I gotta say this about the seller - he's crazy (in a good way) to let me inspect it this completely, but then again a car that was born when I was a Sophmore in high school doesneed a good going over.

I just realized, I am older than DIRT.  

[Douglas]

Ron,

If you can, please find out the history of the car. I'd be curious if it's a car I once considered from Houston. It sounds very similar and, as we all know, there were only 30 configured like that......   :-)

Douglas Kim
New York
USA

[leitz 280 sl]

Ron, Go for it !!!  I bought a Tunic Baige 4 speed 1970 280 sl just like the one you describe.  5K is a good number to work with but if you paint it it will be at least an additional 5 K.  Check out the chrome grill carefully as this can get real expensive super fast.  If you plan on restoring it to make maoney well you will make your money when you buy it not when you sell it as If you pay too much upfront all profit will be lost.  I advise you to buy the car first because you love the W113 and not to make money.  You may or may not make money rightaway. These cars are gaining value at about 20% a year.  So if you keep it a few years and enjoy it you will bew just fine.  By the way I reapinted mine to concourse condition in the "Gold" Tunic baige and the car is absolutely beautiful.  

Bill Owen
1970 280 sl 4 speed.
Tunic Baige
El Paso , Texas where cars never rust.

[Vince Canepa]

Be CAREFUL!  A $20K SL can become a $50K SL real easy without even making a #1 car.  Why did they change the color?  Did they cover up a bunch of rust?  Drum brakes?  No way.  From the very beginning they had front discs.  4 wheel discs replaced the rear drums with the 250SL.

Vince Canepa
1967 250SL
113.043-10-001543
568H Signal Red
116 Caviar MB-Tex

[cospinner]

I also have a 1970 Euro 280SL with the sand beige color (color code 467 from the data card). The car was repainted a couple of years ago by the previous owner and I noticed my dash is also a lighter shade of gold/beige?  Coincidence?  I have noticed more and more 280SLs coming up for sale in this color, with the dark brown (248) leather inside.

Chip in Dallas
1970 Euro 280SL
Dallas, TX

quote:Originally posted by RonKMiller

quote:Originally posted by KevinC

I believe that the 113 featured on the MB USA Classic Center website is Sand Beige.

http://http://www.mbusa.com/heritage/classic-center-california.do

Kevin Caputo
Boca Raton, FL
1967 230 SL Automatic
670 Light Ivory
113 Bronze/Brown MB Tex
2007 Lava Gray Audi Q7

Yep, that's the color.  It has about a 10 year old paint job, but the weird thing is the dash paint is kind of a light beige - not "gold" like the exterior.  Not even close.

I'm thinking the original color was the "light beige"....?

[Raymond]

It sounds like your dash color is DB050 "Classic White" which is possibly the most common Mercedes color of the era.  

The data card is available from your Mercedes dealer if you have the VIN.  The Parts Dept. guys at Brumos here in Jacksonville pulled an image of my data card up on their computer and handed it to me once when I was in ordering parts.  The print out looks exactly like the form of the original that I got with the car.

Once you have a copy of the data card, you can find the key to the numbers here on this site and find out how the car was delivered from the factory.

As others have mentioned, the front should be discs and the rear are a disc/drum combo with the drum for the parking brake.  If this has drums only on the rear, the wrong rear end is under there.  You'd have to wonder why.

And, the 30 number is laughable but it may be what the current owner was told and he just bought it without doing any research.  You don't have to be as gullible.



Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe

[n/a]

quote:Originally posted by Raymond

It sounds like your dash color is DB050 "Classic White" which is possibly the most common Mercedes color of the era.  

The data card is available from your Mercedes dealer if you have the VIN.  The Parts Dept. guys at Brumos here in Jacksonville pulled an image of my data card up on their computer and handed it to me once when I was in ordering parts.  The print out looks exactly like the form of the original that I got with the car.

Once you have a copy of the data card, you can find the key to the numbers here on this site and find out how the car was delivered from the factory.

As others have mentioned, the front should be discs and the rear are a disc/drum combo with the drum for the parking brake.  If this has drums only on the rear, the wrong rear end is under there.  You'd have to wonder why.

And, the 30 number is laughable but it may be what the current owner was told and he just bought it without doing any research.  You don't have to be as gullible.



Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe

Thanks, I'll check it out!  Drove the car yesterday and it is tight, as advertised.  Motor is real quiet, did not leak any fluids after sitting for hot 1.5 hours, and no blue smoke out the exhaust under acceleration.  I've got to get underneath it now and also probe the engine compartment - it's pretty dusty but I like that, makes it much easier to spot any leaks.

I'm still thinking in the current condition it is a 3+, and with detailing, a corect and complete interior re-do and new top it would be a 2+.  Does that sound about right?

My vote for the best thing about the 280 SL?  The HORN!  Makes me laugh EVERY time.

[Vince Canepa]

You can't have a "2" car with the dash the doesn't match the exterior.

Vince Canepa
1967 250SL
113.043-10-001543
568H Signal Red
116 Caviar MB-Tex

[rob walker]

Ron, the real concern for me would be on a 1970 280SL, this should not come with drum brakes. Otherwise seems a reasonable option for you. Check carefully if this really does have drums and then ask vendor (and yourself) why!

Rob Walker
1968 280SL papyrus white/green leather
Spain and Turkey

[Douglas]

quote:Originally posted by Vince Canepa

You can't have a "2" car with the dash the doesn't match the exterior.

Vince Canepa

Vince raises a good point. A #2 car is a very, very nice example -- what most people here would consider a "show car." This would be a car that is rarely driven and with an undercarriage as nice as the rest of the vehicle. For example, that medium blue 280 SL on motoringinvestments.com that recently sold for $79.9K is a solid #2.

Douglas Kim
New York
USA

[n/a]

quote:Originally posted by Douglas

quote:Originally posted by Vince Canepa

You can't have a "2" car with the dash the doesn't match the exterior.

Vince Canepa

Vince raises a good point. A #2 car is a very, very nice example -- what most people here would consider a "show car." This would be a car that is rarely driven and with an undercarriage as nice as the rest of the vehicle. For example, that medium blue 280 SL on motoringinvestments.com that recently sold for $79.9K is a solid #2.

Douglas Kim
New York
USA

Thanks Vince and Douglas for your input.  Hmmm, looks like my goal would be taking it from a 3 to a 3+ with the new interior and top. A 2 would be getting into detailing that I just don't have the time or patience to deal with.  I've rebuilt several older bikes to that level before (frame off) and dealing with chasing parts and cleaning is just too much.

I'd rather DRIVE it!  

[Douglas]

[/quote]

Thanks Vince and Douglas for your input.  Hmmm, looks like my goal would be taking it from a 3 to a 3+ with the new interior and top. A 2 would be getting into detailing that I just don't have the time or patience to deal with.  I've rebuilt several older bikes to that level before (frame off) and dealing with chasing parts and cleaning is just too much.

I'd rather DRIVE it!  
[/quote]

Point well taken. The car may very well be a great car, so don't take my comment as anything more than Pagoda "pettifoggery." :-)

I still think it sounds intriguing. I've got to think the brake issue is just a simple mistake.

Before you pick over the body, visit the following link for a diagram of known weak points:

http://silverstarrestorations.com/113SL.htm

Good luck & report back to us. Or better yet, how about a photo?

Douglas Kim
New York
USA