Help from Mercedes Germany?

[Cortez-Campos]

Hi

I have a "small" problem with my pagode, the problem is that when I put it in gear, the idle drops, and the engine die out.

It is a Mercedes shop here in Denmark which are trying to fix it, but they know nothing about such olds cars, and now they have tried for 6 weeks!!
I have searched this forum, and found that bpossel had a tread with a similar problem, and it was the vacuum throttel unit, so I printed the papers, and showed them to mercedes, but they says that the vacuum unit is fine.

Well long story  

My question is, is it true that a Mercedes shop in Denmark can't get any help from Mercedes in Germany? one of the biggest car companies in the world??

They have found a 67 years old man in Copenhagen, but he has a bad health, so he can't help them.

Sorry that such big company depend on a 67 years old sick man.

Anyone aware of an official chanel who can help a mercedes shop in Denmark??


280 SL 1969 anthracite 172, with red inteior.

[mdsalemi]

Cortez,

This is nonsense.  One ostensible purpose of the Classic Center is to help dealers and other keep the older cars running.  My suspicion is that your dealer simply does not want to put the effort forth in solving your problem and investigating through official channels exactly what needs to be done.

The tools exist.  The processes and procedures exist.  The documentation and parts exist and are available.  It's how the people these things are made available to choose to use them.  A dealer pleading ignorance on an old car is common here in the USA too.

Maybe YOU need to contact the Classic Center in Germany; or the MB Club in Denmark (if there is such a group?) and help out the dealer--else find an independent repair facility.  I know you are a very small country and in that case you may need to travel south to Germany for proper assistance.

Now, onto your problem.  Just because you have a nice idle, let's say at 750-900 RPM does not necessarily indicate that it is "correct".  When you put it into gear, if the idle solenoid pushes the rail, (you can see this with the help of a friend) then the idle solenoid isn't your problem.

I think you must go back and ensure all the linkages are set properly (see Linkage Tour)and the idle is set properly (properly meaning according to book with the proper mixture and air adjustment, not just RPM.  My guess is that if the solenoid is working, when all is adjusted properly, then your problem will go away.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America

[TheEngineer]

Cortez:
My car is a 1969 also. It idles at about 750 RPM and a little slower when I put it in gear. There is a switch on the transmission that senses when you put it in gear. This switch energizes the solenoid on the throttle linkage and it pops out a little. That increases the throttle setting to compensate for the increased drag of having the transmission in gear. Like Michael Salemi says: You must check the entire arrangement. You really must educate yourself about how this car works, otherwise you are at the mercy of incompetent mechanics. Make one adjustment at a time and observe the results: If nothing changes, or if it gets worse, undo your adjustment and try something else. You must buy the Factory Manual. It's expensive, but worth it.

[Rolf]

Cortex,

 Mercedes Classics has the service manual on CD. The website, for the US site is http://www.mbusa.com/heritage/index.do. Run the cursor overthe classic tab, then click on the technical literature tab.

Rolf
1966 230SL Auto
1992 300D
1991 FLHS

[Cees Klumper]

Cortez - in all likelihood you have an automatic and if that is the case, then I would bet that the problem is the idle speed solenoid that Michael and TheEngineer have commented on. If it works, but does not extend far enough upon actuation (putting the car in gear) there is an easy adjustment you can make yourself. If it does not work, you need to find out why (wiring, solenoid defective -they are expensive new!- or switch defective, etc) and correct that. In any event, putting an automatic trans car in gear should not need to result in any change in the idle RPM.

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[Cortez-Campos]

Ok thanks guys, I will try to contact classic center.

The car was perfect until 6 weeks ago, I was driving home from work, and suddenly the car dies out.

There was a Mercedes dealer not far from here, so I pushed the car to them, they found out it was an electric box (they haven't told me which one yet) properly the CSS, it costed 1000 Euros.

They installed the new one, and the car haven't been able to run in idle since.

Thanks again, I'll try to contact Classic Car Center tomorrow.



Christian Cortez Campos

280 SL 1969 anthracite 172, with red inteior.

[Cortez-Campos]

Dear Pagode friends.

I still have big problems with my 280 SL

The problem is as shown below very bad idle, and now it's also sometimes missing 1 cylinder.

But my really concern is that I can't find any help from Mercedes-Benz, it is like they won't help us guys with old cars, like we ask for problems when we buy thise old cars.
2 Mercedes-Benz dealers here in Denmark have now worked on the car for 3 months, but still no result.

I showed them this topic with answers from Cees, Michael and theengineer, and they have checked the idle speed solenoid etc.

Now they have quited my car, and told me that they can't help me  their offer is to find another engine, it is easier they say, but the compression tests look fine, so why find a new engine??

I guess Classic Car Center in Germany still is a solution, but as I can see it is not a normal workshop which deal with such "small" problems, but more restoration.

This should be a dealer problem, perhaps with some help from Mercedes-benz Germany.

I will keep you up to date with this case



280 SL 1969 anthracite 172, with red inteior.

[66andBlue]

Christian,
rather than going to another M-B dealer again consider bringing the car to an independent repair shop that specializes in vintage M-B cars. Do they exist in Denmark?
Perhaps you can ask the members of the German Pagode site (http://www.pagodentreff.de/diskussionsforum/) whether they can recommend the M-B dealer in Flensburg (should be closest to you) or know of a good independent there or in Kiel.

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic

[Cortez-Campos]

Yes independent people do exist which work with classic cars, Jaguar,Mercedes, ferrari etc.

But can it be true that I need to use such independent people?, I believe Mercedes should be able to repair their own cars, it is still one of the biggest car companies, and the car company which got most old cars running on the roads, so if they can´t maintain their own cars, it is very bad.

To me it sound total ridiculous that they can´t get the car to run in idle.

280 SL 1969 anthracite 172, with red inteior.

[rwmastel]

Cortez,

Hello.  I just used our Members section (link in top right corner of screen) to send an e-mail to every one of our members in Denmark.  About a ten members.  I hope some of them will reply here and give you good suggestions on where to get your 280SL repaired.

MB dealerships train their technicians on the new cars, so they don't know how to fix the old cars.  That is why independant shops can be better than official MB dealerships for fixing our 40 year old cars.  Think of them as speciality doctors.  It is too much to ask for a dealership to know all cars and it is too much for a doctor to know all aspects of medicine.  Just like you have heart specialist and cancer specialist and so forth, we have different people to fix cars.  Dealerships they have the tools and training to fix newer cars, typically under 20 years old.  Independant shops repair cars about 20 to 40 years old.  After 40, the cars are typically getting restored, not repaired, so a restoration expert handles the cars over 40 ro 50 years old. A dealership can not be expected to fix everything from a 2007 S65 AMG to a 1937 540K.

Think of the MB Classic Center as a specialist for the specialits.  They can supply information, parts, or literature to you or your mechanic.  They can also perform full restorations for very large costs.  But you are correct in that they probably do not do repairs & maintenance.  Their purpose is to be helpful when other "normal" resources are not sufficient.

I am sure you will find the right place to take your car once the other Denmark members join the conversation.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[jeberg]

Thanks for the call to action Rodd,

My cars are being serviced by Reimers Auto in Bagsværd (44 44 16 61). He is independent but specialize in MB, and knows his way around the old cars, and he does only what is needed, or what you ask for.

Best of all his hourly fee is about 400DKK (70USD) which is about half of what MB-Copenhagen charges.

Come to think of it, was your car repainted lately? Know it sounds silly, but if the paint shop puts a freshly painted car in the drying oven it reaches about 80C, and sometimes on old cars this causes cables that are corroded to increase its resistance. This happened to my ignition cables once, and that caused unstable idle and the "loss" of one cylinder. Try having them measure if the electrical resistance in the cables are correct.

Best of luck

Henrik
'56 190SL
'67 250SL
'01 C180T
'07 CLS350CGI

[glennard]

C-C et al, As mentioned before on the Forum, I am going to schedule a 'World Wide Tour' to fix and tune Pagodas.  No charge, just room and board and gas to the next stop.  Care to mark your calendar for  Denmark?

[Kemal]

Mine will be due for a service soon ! (' ')

Kemal
280 SL Manual 69

quote:Originally posted by glennard

C-C et al, As mentioned before on the Forum, I am going to schedule a 'World Wide Tour' to fix and tune Pagodas.  No charge, just room and board and gas to the next stop.  Care to mark your calendar for  Denmark?

[Cortez-Campos]

Yes Jeberg actually it was repainted last year, so it is a possibility.

I don´t worry about the car, because it will run again perfect, now I will find an independent workshop.

But I still believe this is a big problem for Mercedes-Benz, I don´t think this is brainsurgery as rwmastel think.

When I place my Mercedes at a Mercedes workshop/dealer I expect the workshop can get all the help in the world from Mercedes-Benz in Germany either from Classic Car Center or Mercedes-Benz, they have many engineers employeed, so I can´t understand why 2 workshops here in Denmark should use 3 months, and now give up.

But I will ofcause find a independent workshop, which can make the car, without any help from engineers

280 SL 1969 anthracite 172, with red inteior.

[lethj]

Got the nice hint to help a fellow dane in trouble.  Sorry to say I do not know of a specialist on these cars in Denmark. Probably since very few interesting cars were sold back then due to the ridiculous taxes her (180%).  Luckily these dream cars a now veteran and can be bought at low tax and even lower $ rate so we can enjoy them as well.  Lets hope that this results in more specialist workshops to help us out. I will myself be watching this thread, to see if anyone else has spotted good pagoda places in Denmark.

Best regards
Jesper

230 SL 1967

[rwmastel]

quote:Originally posted by glennard

As mentioned before on the Forum, I am going to schedule a 'World Wide Tour' to fix and tune Pagodas.  No charge, just room and board and gas to the next stop.

Your first stop should be in Blacklick, Ohio at the end of this month!  Collect any additional knowledge about the cars, tools, and so forth, then repair some while you're there, then be on your way to your next destination!  What a great idea for a retired person with a Pagoda passion.  Sounds fun - I've got my retirement plan for 2027 started!

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[mille]

Hi

Try and call Frank Knudsen at Mercedes-Benz in Ringsted, tel: 57613355. Frank is the MB Spare parts manager and is very helpful. He might be able to help you.

An maybe better try is to contact Folmers Auto, Odensevej 2 5550 Langeskov on Fyn tel: (+45) 6538 2497 fax: (+45) 6538 2897. Folmer restores these vehicles and he may be able to solve the problem. If you are still in vain pls contact me again as I might be able to help through some of my contacts in the automotive business.

You are also welcome to call me on mob 20427660.

Cheers

/Finn  
At the moment no Pagoda  
MB 230 E 1988
Morgan +8 1974

[ZwoachtzigSL]

.

Hello,


I think, you in Denmark will have no chance for solving your problem
professionally. I guess/advise you, bring your car to a German Pagoda-
Specialist.

In Hamburg would be: Gunnar Hahn

http://www.automobile-hahn.com/hahn.html


Detlef
Bad Homburg, Germany


.

 

[psmith]

I think C-C's real point was that he was surprised that the MB dealer could not fix his problem.  I think most of us, in the U.S. anyway, stop going to the dealership as soon as our new car warranty has run out.  And that was a long time ago for the pagoda.  I think that MB has set up the Classic Centers to repair and maintain old cars like ours, because the new cars are so different and so complicated, that the modern mechanics don't have time to learn about the old ones too.  In a perfect world, the dealership should rely on the advice of the Classic Center, or at least recommend the owner take their car there instead.

Pete S.