Euro Spec Ubiquity

[dynocomet]

Hello all,

I am new two Pagodas, trying to learn as much as possible. I've noticed that many cars on the US market are European specification. There's a great deal of discussion in previous threads about the differences between american and euro spec, but I wondered if anyone could tell me why the latter is so common in the first place? I assume they were all imported independent of the US dealership network?

Thanks!

[Peter van Es]

One thing you'll find is that many Europeans have imported SL's back from the US, and then spend money to make it look European (remove side-markers, bumper overrriders, change headlights and so on). I have, and I know many others who do.

Many people prefer the cleaner, less cluttered lines that result.

Pete

Check out http://bali.esweb.nl for photographs of classic car events and my 1970 280 SL

[Douglas]

I think many Europeans will tell you there's an abundance of US-spec cars in Europe, so it appears to be a two-way street. A lot of time has passed since these vehicles were produced, so there have been numerous waves of importation going both ways driven by factors on either side of the Atlantic such as currency valuation, changing import regulations, local market conditions, and just plain fashion.

If you're considering a Euro Pagoda here in the US, you should also consider that a European model has a greater chance of being a stick-shift, generally has less emmissions equipment, likely has more horsepower, and probably even  has more decorative chrome throughout.

At the moment, it seems some very strong examples in the US are finding homes in Europe, including one example sold by motoringinvestments.com that went for $105K.

Douglas Kim
New York
USA

[Chad]

Many Euro Spec cars in the US are US cars with Euro-facelifts.  Mine is a US car (from datacard) that is a manual 230 with power steering only.  It has NO sidemarkers, NO overriders or anything else, as many of the 230 and early 250 cars were spared this.  The original headlights (US) were shabby (like other things from the years in desert california and the virgin islands) and were replaced by myself with Euro headlights because they incorporate the fogs and seem technically superior, plus I like the look of the Euro lights. So the car appears to be Euro, but if you look at the instrument gauges (in MPH) and also the Engine (being US) will not be like a European car.  So it just seems to look like a Euro car superficially because of the simplicity in original trim and the change in headlights, although this was not intended by me.  A true Euro car a slightly different engine, for instance Euro 280 have a hotter cam/etc than the US 280, I have been told.

The difference is bigger for the 280 cars, because of the sidemarkers and overriders.
You will notice a wide range of configurations that make little sense in relation to the year of make. Sometimes you will see a car titled for one year that will superficially look like it was oproduced five years later or earlier.  The big changeover years in the 60-70s were 1967 and 1974.  These cars had a production run that spanned 1967 of course.  Overall I think the changeover that occured halfway through the 250 run is more significant than the difference between Euro and US.

Some Euro car have sidemarker lights, like Italian ones with the attractive round one like you find on Alfas and Ferrari of the period.  The round sidemarkers are very attractive and it's a shame that the US sidemarkers of the later cars were the rectangular ones that seem a little heavy heanded compared to the rest of the design.

There are many that really like the US headlights, and I think they look nice too.  Anyway, the "Euro" setup is sometimes skin-deep, sometimes deeper.  The VIN should tell the tale.


1967 230SL

[waqas]

Beware- I've seen examples of cars advertised as 'Euro spec' with only the cosmetic attributes of a Euro car. Conversely, I've seen European cars imported to the US in the 1970s, with the addition of DOT required modifications (sealed-beam headlights, side-markers, amber turn signals, bumper over-riders, seat-belts, etc). My secondary pagoda is one such example, imported from Germany in 1979 by the previous owner. My primary pagoda, although imported to the US around 1976, somehow escaped these DOT-required modifications. So you'll find all kinds of examples. My suggestion is that you find a car in the best possible condition (rust, mechanics, etc) you can afford. I don't think a 'Euro-spec' car is really worth a premium, all else being equal.

You've come to the right place; search through the archives, there's a fantastic treasure-trove of information here.

And welcome to the group!

WAQAS in Austin, Texas

[Cees Klumper]

Back to the original question, of why are there so many (true) Euro spec W113s in the US - there have been many reports of servicemen who, while stationed in Germany in the sixties (not too long after WWII, and in the middle of the Cold War, the US military maintained a huge presence in Europe, and particularly in Western Germany) bought a Pagoda. Probably they did not have to pay local taxes, the dollar was very strong so the cars were relatively cheap, and they were able to ship the cars back to the US cheap. That could well be the single most important source of Euro spec cars having found their way to the US.

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[DavidAPease]

Small correction: the VIN will not tell whether a car started life as a Euro model or not.  The build card has a code for the dealer location, and the "other" data plate (the one near the windshield washer pump) has a code that tells which market the car was built for.  

Also, I do not believe that the 230s had any engine differences between US and Euro. My 230SL has Euro headlights, metric instruments, and a couple of small odditites due to being French.  I can't think of any other differences.

-David Pease
'66 French 230SL

[glennard]

Yes, A lot of air force guys brought back Beetles in the cargo bay-never saw customs, etc.  The smart ones brought back Pagodas!

quote:Originally posted by cees klumper

Back to the original question, of why are there so many (true) Euro spec W113s in the US - there have been many reports of servicemen who, while stationed in Germany in the sixties (not too long after WWII, and in the middle of the Cold War, the US military maintained a huge presence in Europe, and particularly in Western Germany) bought a Pagoda. Probably they did not have to pay local taxes, the dollar was very strong so the cars were relatively cheap, and they were able to ship the cars back to the US cheap. That could well be the single most important source of Euro spec cars having found their way to the US.

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[Shvegel]

My standard speach:

Remember that if the car was a euro car and it went through DOT inspection the speedometer will read in miles and will register how many miles since SINCE THE SPEEDOMETER WAS CHANGED!

I have seen too many people bring to me grey market cars and say "It only has 27,000 miles on it."

[rogerh113]

I think it all comes down to a personal preference.  I think of the 230SL manual in minimal mode (no over-riders, less weight, no power steering, fewer creature comforts) as more of a sports car.  The later version of the 280Sl (auto trans, air con, more power to offset the incremental weight) as more of a sporty car.  Depends on what you are looking for in a car.  The 113 will never be as bulky as the later SLs no matter what version you get, but the differences between the 230SL and the 280Sl are subtle but real.  My preference is the early, more agile version, but that is just a preference..... I'm sure that the guys/gals with the later versions love their cars as much as I do - hard not to.

Regards -- Roger
'66 230SL

[DavidAPease]

Hi, Patrick,

Remember that DOTs are state-run bureaucracies, and that rules vary (sometimes greatly) from state to state.  My 230SL was imported from France to California, and still has the original (metric) gauges.  It has a California sticker on the door jamb that says it passed some kind of inspection, but since I didn't do the importing, I don't know what that inspection entailed.  I don't see any signs of anything having been changed from its original configuration (because of importing it, anyway!).

-David Pease
'66 French 230SL

[Shvegel]

Unless there is now an exemption based on age all cars imported into the country must meet US DOT rules which include Miles per hour speedometer, side markers and door bars etc.

I imported several 928 Porsche in the days before the bond and at that time you bought a DOT kit from Porsche to do the conversion. There was no inspection per se therefore nothing to keep you from not putting the parts on but if they catch you good luck.

[rwmastel]

quote:Originally posted by Shvegel

Unless there is now an exemption based on age all cars imported into the country must meet US DOT rules which include Miles per hour speedometer, side markers and door bars etc.

There must have been ways around it.  My '66 was originally in Italy and was imported to California in 1976.  I still have Euro lights, bumpers, instruments, etc...

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[J. Huber]

Same story as Rodd's except mine was raised on tulips and heinekins before coming to Amerika(#5). Still all Euro.

James
63 230SL

[ptomey]

quote:Originally posted by David Pease

the "other" data plate (the one near the windshield washer pump) has a code that tells which market the car was built for.

I have a 68 280 SL Euro Spec and have been trying to trace it's history. The Data Plate reads as follows:

279 426
180G 172G 6
113044 12 2
-    00076 00181

I've decoded everything except the "2" at the end of the third line which should be the code for the country of origin. I know "7" is USA does anyone know what country "2" represents? If it's Germany it would be consistent with what the seller told me.

Thanks

Paul Tomey
Tierra Verde,FL

1968 280SL Light Ivory (Enjoy)
2002 Porsche 996TT (Track)
2003 Van Dieman Formula Car (Race)
2006 Yukon Denali (Tow Cars and Haul Kids)

[Chad]

I seem to think I remember there being an age related exemption for grey market cars.  25 years I believe.  Don't know if that was universal or still the way it is.

1967 230SL

[Douglas]

quote:Originally posted by ptomey

I have a 68 280 SL Euro Spec and have been trying to trace it's history. The Data Plate reads as follows:

279 426
180G 172G 6
113044 12 2
-    00076 00181

I've decoded everything except the "2" at the end of the third line which should be the code for the country of origin. I know "7" is USA does anyone know what country "2" represents? If it's Germany it would be consistent with what the seller told me.

Thanks

Paul Tomey
Tierra Verde,FL

1968 280SL Light Ivory (Enjoy)
2002 Porsche 996TT (Track)
2003 Van Dieman Formula Car (Race)
2006 Yukon Denali (Tow Cars and Haul Kids)

2 (or 3) indicates the original country of origin as Germany.

Douglas Kim
New York
USA

[rwmastel]

quote:Originally posted by Chad

I seem to think I remember there being an age related exemption for grey market cars.  25 years I believe.  Don't know if that was universal or still the way it is.

My car was only 10 years old when transported.  Maybe that was the limit back then in California?

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[mherman2]

I bought a 1968 Euro 280 SL last year. It spent it's first 15 years in Germany and then was brought over in 1983 by the man I bought it from. He told me he found some small office in a remote location of california that just passed the car with flying colors. He actually gave me all the shipping information and inspection information, piles of it. Oe seem to be a safety test with each thing checked off.

I am still trying to figure out what I have as far as original specs. The car is an unrestored, repainted same color (white) or Ivory, Euro Original.

We have a station here in San Diego that sells 100 octane, it likes it a lot as do my Shelby's.

Can anyone help me decipher my data plate? I am new to Pagodas.

426 514 531

050 G  050 G  6

113044 12   0

00240    80631

1968 White 280 SL Euro #000857

1967 Shelby GT500
1968 Shelby GT500KR Convertible
1967 Shelby Supersnake Converible (915hp)

[al_lieffring]

The requirements to import a used european spec car to the USA have varried over the years, and it involves dealing with several government beaurocracies, the requierements seem to vary by who you are talking too and what time of day it is.
In the mid 70's my father imported a total of about 30 cars, the phrse "grey market" hadn't been invented yet. At that time any car built before 31 Dec, 1967, could be imported with a minimum of modifications, Installing sealed beam head lamps, converting the speedometer to MPH, and installing seatbelts marked on the label as DOT approved.
Most of these cars were 250s and SE sedans, a couple of 300 sedans and coupes, and 3 or 4 pagodas.
At the time the government required photo evidence that the european lamps were destroyed. We put them in a pile and smashed them with a sledge hammer. on later shipments we had them changed out before export.

Al Lieffring
66 230Sl
Jones'n for a new gas tank

[rwmastel]

Mike Herman,

Hi.  Congratulations on finding us!  Sounds like you have a great car, it's very rare to get so much documentation with a Pagoda.

Please use the Search feature (link in top right corner).  Here's a sample of what you can find:
http://index.php?topic=6288+plate
http://index.php?topic=5992+plate
http://index.php?topic=5230+plate

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420