Electronic fuel injection

[upside2k]

In a previous thread I explained that I had oil leaking from my injector pump, and received some wonderful help from many of you. THANKS!!

I bought my 230SL from the original owner in 1992 and since then have had virtually no problems. We probably only drive about 2000 miles/year.
 
Now that I have learned about the vagaries of the system and see that I will probably need the pump rebuilt, I am thinking that dealing with this antiquated, and expensive system, may not be necessary or prudent.

I believe that a current electronic injection system will solve most of our fuel/injection problems if adapted for our purpose. I have not investigated whether a replacement system is available. Do any of you know of one?

In the absence of an existing relacement system, I am going to start to develop the workings of this kind of system including a current design fuel pump and integral cold start routine. It may seem difficult to adapt a current injection system to our cars but I think you will find it is easier than it might seem. I will be happy to share this setup with the group as it develops.

If you are a purist this idea will surely seem like heresy, but many of us just want a daily driver we can count on. In my case, I must simply satisfy the driver of the car---my wife.

If you have any thoughts on the above, please let me hear from you.

John

[ejm]

try www.mbgrand600.com. this guy is a mercedes 600 specialist but has done a 60s 280se turbo with a modern injection system which you tune with your laptop. he also sells the systems.

[ejm]

original posting is www.mbgrand600.com/forsale/280SE/FrameSet.htm

[merrill]

you could go thru all of your proposed upgrades, however
rebuilding the inj pump, css and inj pump thermotat (if needed) will probably be less expensive.

also,  once rebuilt these will probably be good for a long time, especially since most of us do not drive these cars every day. so these components may be good for another 20 or 30 years. maybe?

my 2 cents

Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230

[upside2k]

To Update: I have found what appears to be a promising ECU ( Injection Controller) . I will probably install this system very soon. I believe it is the best long term answer to the fuel, injection, and warm-up control problems. This system is also available with coil ignition( No distributor, individual coils for each cylinder). I'll think about that aspect later( It can be added). This system allows you to tailor the performance of your engine in almost everyway imaginable and tune it with a laptop. I'll update as I progress.

LINK:http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html


  John

[jeffc280sl]

Cool idea!  The product looks interesting.  Keep us updated and good luck.

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

[J. Huber]

Interesting. Now, usually the purists among us would have burned John at the stake by now...    Indeed, others have at least been banished for lesser ambitions than this. Maybe it is the way he is confidently trailblazing ahead. In any event, good luck John and keep us posted.

James
63 230SL

[mdsalemi]

Here, here, Doc--well said.  And btw the CDN and USD were exactly equal on 9/20.

It's like the Steinway (piano) aficionados say.  If you find a "rebuilt" Steinway, that has Renner actions, and all manner of other 3rd party, non-Steinway parts, (like new plastic keys from China, a new soundboard from goodness knows where, hammers from Korea, etc.) it may well be a great piano but it isn't a Steinway any longer...

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America

[glennard]

Have had over 20 of these 'pentultimate' FI cars-all with the benefit of previous enlightened shade tree adjustments.  After minor work they all started and ran within acceptable limits.  Knowledge is power.  Get a better mechanic!

[J. Huber]

Does anybody else here smell smoke?

John, if at the end of the day, you decide to stay with the original set-up -- I recommend Gunther at Stuttgart Motors on Anacapa. He knows his stuff.

James
63 230SL

[George Des]

Years ago when I was stationed in Vicenza, someone took apart piece by piece a 1972 Alfa Romeo Montreal with the idea of restoring it. He never got around to it, came down on orders to leave and it wound up in the government Property Disposal Yard at Caserma Ederle where there was a feeding frenzy to pick it up for pocket change. I'll never forget the final buyer saying he was going to customize it by replacing the stock engine and transmission with a Ford driveline! What a waste of some finely engineered equipment!

George Des

[upside2k]

Gee, I would never have guessed that this concept would evoke such passion.

Firstly, I would never make any change to my SL that was not reversable. IT IS my wife's car and I enjoy driving it on occasion.

My proposed changes will change the character of the car about as much as electronic ignition does. Do those of you who have electronic ignition ever think of yanking it and returning to point ignition? Do you believe that you have made an unalterable change to your car? That's simply inane.

If one were to suggest driveline, body, steering, or other conspicuous changes to the elements of the car I would agree with those who oppose such thoughts. These are changes that obviate the character and charm of the car. It's why my wife loves the car as it is.

What my wife does not love is an unreliable car that becomes a trial rather than a pleasure. She has owned new SLs but loves the way this car drives. I would not take that from her.

In any case, I may give in to convention and repair the original pump rather than follow my instinct. So keep the stake and kindling in reserve, extinquish the torches, and keep the dogs at bay----at least for now.  

 Regards,John

[J. Huber]

Hey John, I sure hope you know its just old-fashioned fun when we challenge anyone's ideas here. We all share a passion for these cars -- and like to express it in many ways. Except for that guy that wanted to put a honda engine in...[:0]

James
63 230SL

[upside2k]

If you want to exercise your old fashioned ribbing, check out my new topic"250SL V8". I was thinking I should send a preemptive ambulance to this guy's house in preparation for the inquisition.

I have been working on all sorts of cars and aircraft for fifty years professionally, and personally in my later years, so I can assure you that I have had virtually every gag known-to-man pulled on me. You may not have understood my reactive hyperbole as good natured play. Even the most fanatic among us must be able to take a little jest.

Even Osama: Did you notice that he used Grecian Formula on his beard so he could meet a younger goat?  
 

quote:Originally posted by J. Huber

Hey John, I sure hope you know its just old-fashioned fun when we challenge anyone's ideas here. We all share a passion for these cars -- and like to express it in many ways. Except for that guy that wanted to put a honda engine in...[:0]

James
63 230SL

[upside2k]

Thanks for the tip. I have been told that Pacific Fuel Injection is a very good rebuilder as well.

John

quote:Originally posted by J. Huber

Does anybody else here smell smoke?

John, if at the end of the day, you decide to stay with the original set-up -- I recommend Gunther at Stuttgart Motors on Anacapa. He knows his stuff.

James
63 230SL

[J. Huber]

quote:Originally posted by upside2k

Thanks for the tip. I have been told that Pacific Fuel Injection is a very good rebuilder as well.

John

quote:Originally posted by J. Huber

Does anybody else here smell smoke?

John, if at the end of the day, you decide to stay with the original set-up -- I recommend Gunther at Stuttgart Motors on Anacapa. He knows his stuff.

James
63 230SL

Hi John, yes Pacific is the place to go for Injection Pumps on the West Coast. Gunther is more for general mechanical work on the 113.

James
63 230SL

[upside2k]

Just an update on the electronic injection project---for those who are interested:

I have located an ECU( computer) which appears to be ideal for this application. The ECU can be programed from a laptop and set to innumerable routines. The oxygen sensor and MAP are pretty generic parts, so they are readily available. The wide band O2 sensor seems to be the best option.

Because I am trying to set up the new system in a way that will not affect the ability to retrofit the original system, there are some parts that will require custom machine work. For example, to use electronic injectors will require fabricating bungs that have the exterior threads of the mechanical injectors with a smooth bore inside for the o-ring to seat in. In essence, it will look like a bolt that has been drilled down the bore. I am looking for a part that is ready made. It would be easier to use a Thottle body injector(TBI), but I would prefer to maintain the sequential injector system. I have found many injectors that will work at a reasonable price. I think I have a bolt on solution for the throttle position sensor(TPS) as well. The fuel pump will be replaced by a high pressure unit(40-50psi) that will mount in the original spot. Fortunatly, the SL already has a fuel return line.

At this point it appears that the entire project will be less than $1000USD. The only change to the original system should be the welding of the O2 sensor bung on the exhaust pipe and, of course, it can simply be plugged at any time with a threaded plug. If I have the time( and I probably won't )I hope to get underway with installation next month.