Paint Detail Questions

[bpossel]

Hello All!

Within the next few days I will decide weather to repaint my 113 or hold for another couple of years...  If the price is right, I will start the careful ritual of taking the car apart over the next few weeks.  As I read thru posts, look at all of the resto pictures, etc.  I have a few questions of the group...

1.  Were the front inner wheel well spash guards painted body color, or were they left gray or black?
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2.  On the later models that had the vapor tanks in the trunk, was the metal safety plate on the driver side rear wheel well painted body color?
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3.  Eliminate the front and rear side marker lights?  Since I have upgraded my front lights with Euros and eliminated the bumpers guards, should I have the marker light holes filled in and painted over?  Basically go for a total Euro look and bring the car back to its original intended design (before all of the US DOT regs)?

  Thank You !

bpossel  (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL  /  '97 E320

[Raymond]

You're obviously not going for Concours originality so do what makes you happy.  My wheel wells are painted body color, front and back.  I don't think the appearance would benefit from the contrast being visible in the front.  

The side markers are a safety item and in many states you can't leagally remove them.  Then again, how many cops are likely to bother. In '68 they were just reflectors and not lights, so I removed mine.  I like the cleaner look.


Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe

[dseretakis]

It's funny, in the US we want the euro spec look, but in europe, they die for the US spec cars.
Dimitri

[Danesgate]

quote:Originally posted by dseretakis

It's funny, in the US we want the euro spec look, but in europe, they die for the US spec cars.
Dimitri

I *think* that has more to do with the price than the look? (maybe also the availability of AirCon?)

I don't know of any europeans adding side markers or US spec headlights?

[dseretakis]

I flip flop on which look is better.  I think it depends on the specific car and color.  I saw a silver pagoda a few weeks ago and something just didn't seem right.  It seemed to stark.  I realized that the side reflectors were absent.  I just caught a few second glimpse of this car as it was driving by so I couldn't tell you if it was indeed a euro spec model.

Dimitri

[bpossel]

Thanks for the replies!

Ray mentions "concourse"...

What does this really mean? In concourse judging, do they look at your data card and see if all colors and options match the car?  OR…   do they just look at the overall paint quality, condition of the car, and ensure that the color is an original MB color and that all else (all options) are original MB options.  For example, the Euro lights were an option.  If the car came from Europe, it most likely did not have the side marker lights and did not have the bumper over riders (it was considered a “grey” market car…)

So, my question is…  as long as we stay with original MB colors and use original MB option parts, then aren’t we ok with changing the car?  Aren’t we ok with the resale value?

In summary, I must say that when I purchased my ’71 113 4 years ago, I was all about keeping the car to match the exact data card.  But now, 4 years later, I have a much changed opinion.  I opt for bringing the car back to the original design.  Clearly, these cars are a work of art and taking it back to how they were intended to look should not be an issue.

What is your opinion?

Thank You!


bpossel  (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL  /  '97 E320

[Douglas]

Bob,

Personally, I've always prefered sticking to the data card, but it seems resale isn't really affected, at least not today. The highest price I've ever seen paid for a Pagoda (well into six-figures) was for a car with a color change, so who am I to argue with that?

One scenario where I could see a color change hurting you is if someone is considering two cars that are in the identical condition. At a car show or perhaps even in a sale to a buyer with an originality fetish, the original paint scheme would likely tip the scales in favor of the original car.

I think the more likely scenario is as follows—you're at a car show with a gorgeous Pagoda, nobody knows the paint codes by memory (and wouldn't even know where to look if they did), so the issue of a color change never even comes up with the judges. You take home a huge, gaudy trophy that you throw into a closet where it is later dented by a box of old books that falls on it.

Years later, you  find the dented trophy and remember the anxiety you once had about the color change and you quietly  laugh to yourself and think how the car seems like it's always been the same color.

(Yes, we're splitting hairs here.)

Douglas Kim
New York
USA

[Raymond]

Actually I didn't mention "Concourse" which is a hall you walk down to get to your airline gate, I mentioned "Concours" the French word for competition, which I used as an abbreviation for Concours d'Elegance. :mrgreen:

The Concours judges I have spoken with are looking for originality or faithful restoration.  At Blacklick, Pete Lesler, a qualified Concours judge looked at the body plate on my California Coupe find proof that these coupes were US delivered in 1968.  THere had been some debate among judges and he said my car offered proof.  It was another tiny detail that would make no difference anywher else.

If you plan to enjoy driving the car, do it the way it makes you happy.  If it's competition that makes you happy, then originality for the model year dictates your moves.

Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe

[bpossel]

Hi Ray and Douglas,

Thanks for the response.  Douglas, your right... splitting hairs... the old dented trophy... alot of them junk....

Ray, sometimes I use "MS Word" and then copy and paste into this website.  Spell check changed the word to "concourse" :oops: .  I think I am finished walking down the hall on this one....

Color change to light ivory is in the wind....  more later...
  Thanks,
Bob

bpossel  (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL  /  '97 E320

[RBYCC]

If you're not going to show the car on a highly competitive level, then do what pleases you.

I think you'll find that the majority of W113 buyers or any driveable collector car, are looking for a well maintained, mechanically sound, excellent running and cosmetically pristine example.

Value will be diminished only to a buyer who is looking for "concours quality".

ED A.
1971 280SL
1988 300CE TWIN TURBO
1990 C43 AMG
2003 G55 AMG

[Jonny B]

At the risk of prolonging this thread. I believe the first question you asked about the front wheel should be left as the photo you have posted. The wheel well inner color is body color, but the splash guard should be black/gray.

I have an earlier car with the small vent tank in the right rear inner fender, so I can't do an exact comparison on the second question. Mine is all body color.

As far as the price question, as the number of responses shows, there is no right answer here.

At a MB event, color change is only a point off in show class. And yes, I do check this when I am judging, and I usually bring my Glasurit color code book along.

At a multi-marque show, there is no way the judges can keep up on this for all the different models.

So.........at the end of the day, it is your car, for your enjoyment.

Jonny B
1967 250SL Auto

[Douglas]

Here's another way to look at color changes—think of all the silver (180G) 300 SL roadsters you've seen. Practically none were originally silver and it doesn't seem to hurt their resale value. Many of these silver examples are serious concours cars today.

Douglas Kim
New York
USA

[Shvegel]

Since I am having new fenders and quarter panels installed on my car as well as Euro lights and Euro bumpers I decided to delete the side markers figuring that it would be far easier to hole saw a few new holes rather than repaint to remove them at a later date.

[Danesgate]

Out of interest, should the body below the lower chrome side-strip ever be body-coloured?

The majority of W113s I see are black below this point, but I have seen some which are coloured to the bootom of the sill.

Cheers!

[JamesL]

quote:Originally posted by Danesgate

Out of interest, should the body below the lower chrome side-strip ever be body-coloured?

The majority of W113s I see are black below this point, but I have seen some which are coloured to the bootom of the sill.

Cheers!

Uh oh. Can of worms alert!!!

Mine are body coloured, as are many others I've seen. Consensus seems to be that they should be black which makes the car look less bulky. However, I gather that some left the factory body coloured.  Open to correction on that!

[jameshoward]

Cees....?

[Naj ✝︎]

quote:Originally posted by Danesgate

Out of interest, should the body below the lower chrome side-strip ever be body-coloured?

The majority of W113s I see are black below this point, but I have seen some which are coloured to the bootom of the sill.

Cheers!

Additional colors used on W113 vehicles:

Kofferraum innen: Tiefdunkelgrau, DB 164 Trunk inside: 164 dark grey
Heckdeckel innen: Tiefdunkelgrau, DB 164 Trunk lid, inside: 164 dark grey
Radkasten: Wagenfarbe UT Wheel wells: body color
Schweller: matt schwarz DB 169 Rocker panels/Sills: flat black 169


Source: http://www.sl113.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=DataCard.PaintCodes

Official definative reply :?:

naj

68 280SL

[Ann]

I have been watching with interest on the subject of removing the side marker lights/ or not in a repaint.

I have the little amber circular Italian side marker lights, as opposed to the larger red square ones frequently seen.

Suggestion: if you don't care for the larger red ones, and I think you mentioned you replaced the headlights to the Euro ones, why not replace the larger red ones with the little Italian amber side marker lights (if available).They are only approx. 2 inches diameter.

 That way you still retain the *safety issue* and incorporate another Euro item into your restoration, while minimizing the size of the marker light. I REALLY love my Italian side marker lights, not many Pagodas have them. And they are *cute*! Maybe someone can add a photo- my photos are all too large to post.


Ann

'70 Euro 280 SL silver
'06 BMW Z4 Montego Blue
'98 Jeep Gr.Cherokee (125K mi.)

[bpossel]

Thanks for all of the replies, comments and suggestions!
Naj, thanks for the trunk paint code!  I will use this.

Bob


bpossel  (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL  /  '97 E320