Author Topic: Am I Stirring up trouble?  (Read 19056 times)

rwmastel

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Re: Am I Stirring up trouble?
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2007, 10:50:51 »
quote:
Originally posted by john.mancini

How about the creation of a comprehensive restoration manual for our cars?
John,
Like this?  http://www.sl113.org/wiki/pmwiki.php
Or, did you have something else in mind?  Have you seen the video "Total Restore"?  Some people appreciate it, some had negative things to say.

I don't know how many people are in the Cobra club, but I bet there are LOTS more people in the Corvette club then ours.  One problem with producing such materials is volunteer power.  We need to continue to grow our Group (which only started 4 years ago!).

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL: arabian gray, natural leather, euro, auto, both tops
1994 E420: pearl black, black leather, auto (FOR SALE)
2006 C230: alabaster white, 6-speed manual, no options
Rodd

Did you search the forum before asking?
2017 C43 AMG
2006 Wrangler Rubicon
1966 230SL auto "Italian"

Richard Madison

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Re: Am I Stirring up trouble?
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2007, 12:01:23 »
John:

Correct Restoration and matching numbers is a total obsession with many Vintage Mustang Owners. I remember one Mustang owner who couldn't find the correct bolts for his show restoration car. He went to a factory to have them custom make the bolts for him with correct top markings, of course...cost him thousands just for the bolts.

I havn't been a Mustang owner since I sold the '66 Pony several years ago but I have noticed a difference of attitude among Pagoda owners.

While Pago owners take great pride and take great care of their cars, they do not seem to be as crazy about having everything perfect. To me that's a healthier outlook. I enjoy being a little casual about my hose clamps.

Pagoda owners are free to make their cars as correct as they wish but as for me, I hope we never get as serious as the Mustangers.

Richard M
1969 280 SL with some incorrect items on the car.

« Last Edit: December 17, 2007, 12:02:21 by 280SL71 »
1969 280 SL, Tunis Beige, Euro Model (Italy).

john.mancini

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Re: Am I Stirring up trouble?
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2007, 12:04:34 »
Hi Rodd,
I have used the tech manual and it has been extremely helpful. I have not seen the video. You are right, there are many more members in NCRS, MCA and SAAC. A W113 restoration manual with detailed photos of original cars would be a huge undertaking. There are so many more unrestored, original Pagodas than Corvettes, Shelbys, etc. Now is the time to get as many documented photos as possible. Soon most of the original Pagodas will be repainted, restored, and in so many cases, ruined. As an owner of two unrestored, low mileage 280SL's, I plan to take a large number of detailed photos this winter. Hopefully they will be very helpful in the future.
John Mancini
68 signal/cognac red 4-speed
69 horizon blue/dk blue automatic
John
65 230SL 519 Red 4-sp
98 911 cab
56 Ford F100
08 Porsche RS60 Spyder
23 Z4M40i

john.mancini

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Re: Am I Stirring up trouble?
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2007, 12:12:19 »
Hi Richard,
You are right too. That's why I left those groups. The obcession with factory correctness and achieving trailer queen status was too much for me. However, I am sure there must be a happy medium where the option of maintaining originality is there for those members who have that desire. By the way, you can still purchase every Ford nut and bolt with the absolute correct head markings from AMK products for very cheap money. They have been reproducing these, from original patterns, for years. A complete car hardware replacement might cost $500.00.  The poor soul who spent all that money got taken.
John
John
65 230SL 519 Red 4-sp
98 911 cab
56 Ford F100
08 Porsche RS60 Spyder
23 Z4M40i

hauser

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Re: Am I Stirring up trouble?
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2007, 17:40:05 »
The main reason I revived this post was to make others aware that we only need one group.   I know that our President has tried to get some type of recognition from the people in Germany and have us recognized for what we are and what we stand for.  I also believe there's strength in numbers and if we all united and we all rais our voices in unison then perhaps Cees et al can get us the recognition we rightfully deserve.

1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.

Chad

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Re: Am I Stirring up trouble?
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2007, 22:14:09 »
John:
I hope this doesn't sound the wrong way at all, but I think the difference and higher satisfaction Mercedes model owners have with their various vintage models in less restored and more imperfect states of repair is partly due to a notion (at least mine) that these cars are vastly better made, more stylishly designed and less numerous. Perhaps it's therefore just natural to be happier with whatever we have to work with?

Again this is one opinion.

quote:
Originally posted by 280SL71

John:

Correct Restoration and matching numbers is a total obsession with many Vintage Mustang Owners. I remember one Mustang owner who couldn't find the correct bolts for his show restoration car. He went to a factory to have them custom make the bolts for him with correct top markings, of course...cost him thousands just for the bolts.

I havn't been a Mustang owner since I sold the '66 Pony several years ago but I have noticed a difference of attitude among Pagoda owners.

While Pago owners take great pride and take great care of their cars, they do not seem to be as crazy about having everything perfect. To me that's a healthier outlook. I enjoy being a little casual about my hose clamps.

Pagoda owners are free to make their cars as correct as they wish but as for me, I hope we never get as serious as the Mustangers.

Richard M
1969 280 SL with some incorrect items on the car.





1967 230SL

glennard

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Re: Am I Stirring up trouble?
« Reply #31 on: December 25, 2007, 07:29:40 »
Thank the stars for PPPP - Plausible Positive Pagoda Persiflage.  Just think if we had the Yugo, Vega, Jag, etc. uh, bug.

Bob G ✝︎

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Re: Am I Stirring up trouble?
« Reply #32 on: December 25, 2007, 14:23:55 »
I recently noticed an improvment in the SL113.org site. more informaton is being split into catagories so as to make the site more user friendly. I noticed that contributions to the manual are being made and catagorized.
There is a treasure of information on our site that I have to say is out standing because of the people involved. I have visited the old Yahoo site, still there barely old files, photos post.
Out site has become the Hallmark for 113 Pagoda owners and I am excited to see so much cooperation and sharing of information like never before.
If only we could get the German Pagoda Clubs recognition as well as Mercedes-Benz of North America to offically regonize us as the sole source for the W113 Pagoda automobiles and as a multi country community wiith  a bit of funding from them at lease Mercedes-Benz classic. We could very well put pass  projects in to full swing and prehaps put the demand to offical Mercedes-Benz vendors to start producing out of production parts 40 year old.
Thanks to people like Cees, the board Rod Masteller and Michael Salami who managed to get Joes & Mary Alexanders yearly Pagoda fest into the national magazine, because of so many people who contribute and make this a serious and fun site to be on we have increase our resouces, and resources is what it is all about.
I plan on attending the 2009 Pagoda fest in Ohio at Joe and Mary Alexander's. I really think everyone involved has made a termenious efford to push forward dispite the problems and the competition some speak of.
I wish on this special day this day which brings us to bear upon our selfs the gifts we are fortunate to have and the family who contend with our hobbie, our short commings and our wisdom that this next year will bring us more help to us all and to this forum that was built from the ground up.
Merry Christmas and god Bless.
Bob Geco

hauser

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Re: Am I Stirring up trouble?
« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2007, 01:46:15 »
What gets me is how one will start a topic here and then go and do it all over again on the other site. :evil:  :?  :x

1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.

J. Huber

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Re: Am I Stirring up trouble?
« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2007, 11:10:34 »
Hey Hauser, I agree that can be frustrating. I think double posting used to be a matter of "I'll throw it out in both places to get the most rapid response." However, time has shown that this site is more active and therefore answers come quicker here -- thus the question arises "why ask there when you will get it here?..." Then again, there seem to be a few that post there and not here for whatever reasons.
For the most part, I have stopped asking questions over there merely because I know I can get a faster response here AND that the people I trust for good information are here. Yet, when someone over there asks a question -- what is one to do? It's not in my nature to leave them hanging -- if I can instead help in some way.

James
63 230SL
James
63 230SL

rwmastel

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Re: Am I Stirring up trouble?
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2007, 16:03:39 »
quote:
Originally posted by J. Huber

Yet, when someone over there asks a question -- what is one to do? It's not in my nature to leave them hanging -- if I can instead help in some way.
Post a link to a thread here that answers their question.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL: arabian gray, natural leather, euro, auto, both tops
1994 E420: pearl black, black leather, auto (FOR SALE)
2006 C230: alabaster white, 6-speed manual, no options
Rodd

Did you search the forum before asking?
2017 C43 AMG
2006 Wrangler Rubicon
1966 230SL auto "Italian"

Peter van Es

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Re: Am I Stirring up trouble?
« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2007, 16:07:18 »
quote:
Originally posted by J. Huber

Yet, when someone over there asks a question -- what is one to do? It's not in my nature to leave them hanging


Just point them here...  ;) . Actually, as I've said before, the board of SL113 does not itend to eliminate competitive sites. We therefore linked to the overseas and US based sites. Regrettably neither reciprocated. However, we think ultimately the strongest community will survive. We are the only international community that has a membership enthusiastic enough to organise events. It's very hard to beat that!

Peter

1970 280SL. Also known as 'admin@sl113.org' and organiser of the Technical Manual.
1970 280SL. System Admin of the site. Please do not mail or PM me questions on Pagoda's... I'm not likely to know the answer.  Please post on the forum instead!

JimVillers

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Re: Am I Stirring up trouble?
« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2007, 21:13:29 »
Peter ... You didn't mention that we are the only group that also publishes hard copy on a regular basis.  We just provide services to our members and wish well to others who are also serving the community.



Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, 190E 2.3-16, MGB 5-Speed
Jim Villers
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France

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Re: Am I Stirring up trouble?
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2007, 07:38:26 »
Michael, I'll ignore that "Gents" address...wish we had more ladies on the forum.  

Peter and Jim are right--the group that provides true value and has the energy to produce useful hard data and hold events will survive.  People will naturally either gravitate to it, or they will disappear from all sites.  It happens--people sell their Pagodas and move on to competing interests ( :?:  :?: ).  In that way, the strongest site ends up with the strongest members!



Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder seat
Sarasota FL; Alsace France; Switzerland
Think of your Pagoda as a woman with a past...
Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder seat
Austrian Alps
Think of your Pagoda as a woman with a past...

mdsalemi

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Re: Am I Stirring up trouble?
« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2007, 08:34:40 »
Trice and others--ladies included.

Like a fine wine, a fine thread only improves with age. ;)

Has anyone/everyone read the DATE on that post?  It's more than 3 years old.

At the time there were no active women posters, though there might have been some lurkers.  Even today, while there are women posters, Trice, they are hardly active.  So, "Gents" was certainly acceptable 3 years ago.

At the time the thread was started, the old Yahoo group was "still there"; Dorian's site was moving along nicely, and there had been some discussions between those that be on the board, and Dorian.  At the time I didn't see the need for 3 sites and today don't see the need for more than 1--considering that the active posters were the same essentially, on all 3 sites!


Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

Eryck

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Re: Am I Stirring up trouble?
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2008, 01:06:19 »
And my two cents...

When I bought my car here in Hong Kong about 3 years ago, I went on-line looking for help.  I found pagoda113 first and then this site.  I don't recall the exact reason why I moved over but at the time, I felt that pagoda113 was very commercial, like if you don't pay, you won't get help....that kind of feeling.  Not that I mind paying a membership fee, it's just a different king of feeling.

In contrast, I felt very welcomed on this site and I get a feeling that it is a true non-for-profit 'organization' for hobbyists.  The fact that it is very international is definitely a plus.


1965 230 SL White Manual
Hong Kong

Amanda

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Re: Am I Stirring up trouble?
« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2008, 17:32:55 »
quote:
Even today, while there are women posters, Trice, they are hardly active.


I may well be the one stirring up trouble now, but I have to speak up for Trice, as I would think she would definitely qualify as "active." And just because we might not all be as active as she is, doesn't mean we shouldn't count for something.

Amanda
1966 230SL
Manual
Red/Tan

mdsalemi

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Re: Am I Stirring up trouble?
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2008, 10:09:14 »
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda

quote:
Even today, while there are women posters, Trice, they are hardly active.


I may well be the one stirring up trouble now, but I have to speak up for Trice, as I would think she would definitely qualify as "active." And just because we might not all be as active as she is, doesn't mean we shouldn't count for something.

Amanda
1966 230SL
Manual
Red/Tan



Again, Amanda, look at the date of the post.  3 years ago, there were hardly any woman posters, and addressing this group collectively as "gents" was NOT incorrect and NOT meant as any slight to anyone.

Even today, though, the collective posts of woman on this forum is statistically (not logically, so don't take offense here either!) insignificant.  There just are not that many women here, sorry to say.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

Longtooth

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Re: Am I Stirring up trouble?
« Reply #43 on: February 24, 2008, 12:44:03 »
I agree with Trice's comment and some others.... natural selection will determine which site's survive & prosper & which ultimately bite the dust.

This site offers responses to detail questions regarding anything and everything --- restoration, mechanical problems, cosmetic issues ---- whether for daily driver or trailer queen 113's and everything in-between. ... and as others have pointed out it's get's responses and questions from entire globe (though I haven't seen many posts (queries or responses) from Germany).

What it lacks are comprehensive guides on a given subject... though there's been some effort made in this direction, it's still hit/miss.  Putting such things together requires more, I'm afraid, than just casual volunteer effort, or if a pure volunteer effort, then the approach has to be carefully directed and coordinated, edited, proofed, and cross referenced... none of which is a minor voluntary undertaking.

Another aspect I find somewhat lacking --- or hap-hazard --- on this site is that identification of precisely which models and within models, which chassis numbers are subject to a given response in answer to a given question.  I have found (owning an earlier '67 250SL --- before the major changes to accomodate the new US DOT requirements), many responses apply to a 280SL but not the 230SL,  and the inverse situation.  This leads to both some confusion, incorrect answers, or to multiple answers to the same questions over the course of time (as not every member looks at every post every day 2x per day to provide an answer to the multiple questions).

There is no such thing a "perfect" W113 resources web-site... but this site despite some of it's shortcomings is as close to the unobtainable goal as any W113 site on the globe (my limited opinion, of course).

This site can, has, and will continue to improve with time and the dedicated, selfless efforts of many that contribute to it.  

That being said, however, perhaps the focus of effort going forward in time should be to find a means & organizational method to put some of those features that have been started or partially done (the comprehensive ones, in particular) into practise. I provide, as an example, an article I recently saw on Spencer's OurSL site (Burlingame CA) that describes in pictures and words how to inspect the area's behind the rocker inspection panels, under the rocker covers, replace any rusted metal, and purchase prices for replaced covers (inspection and rocker covers). While a few additional details & pics could have added for a complete DIY effort, it was as good an article with relevant pic's on this particular (and oft necessary & required) subject as any I've seen.  Unfortunately, this article is only viewable if you're a paid subscription member to Spencer's OurSL site.  The value (besides the content itself) was, however, that the subject was limited to one particular condition/job/topic, and that it was clearly labeled with that subject: "280SL Rocker Repair".

Longtooth
67 250SL US #113-043-10-002163
'02 SL500 Sport

glennard

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Re: Am I Stirring up trouble?
« Reply #44 on: February 24, 2008, 13:05:58 »
This SITE, PUB, is about as good as it geTs.  Look at others.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 17:31:01 by glennard »

Mark280SL

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Re: Am I Stirring up trouble?
« Reply #45 on: February 24, 2008, 15:59:35 »
Ladies and Gents,

For what it's worth to you I'm very new to the site, and just recently purchased a 113. I started doing research on many things 113 prior to the purchase of my car and decided to focus on this group as opposed to other resources. I concluded this to be a good source of information, many of the posts are very informative and thoughtfully written, and those who I have interacted with so far have been helpful and friendly. All good things in my book. It's not perfect but few things in life are. I'm more selective then most and at the end of the day I'm satisified I made the right choice.

I'd guess that those with a similar interest in these great cars who take the time to look at this site and others and think about it will conclude likewise so therefore I suspect natural selection will indeed leave one survivor. How long that takes who knows, I won't worry about it.

Mark
1970 Ivory 280SL

« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 18:56:01 by 280SL71 »
Mark

dwilli3038

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Re: Am I Stirring up trouble?
« Reply #46 on: March 02, 2008, 06:55:37 »
At the time that this tread was first posted, I was using all three. I did voluntarily contribute money to Dorian's site because I received good benifit from that site. As this group has grown, and improved I have made it my only one. I do not remember the last time I even looked at Dorian's site, mush less posted on it. It was (and probably still is) a good site, but for my needs this is better

Daryl
'64 230 SL Buckeye Benz Scarlet interior and Grey top Serial # 508
'77 280SE